Misuse of the "Edit Message" functionality in forums.

[Former Member]

Hi,

I have been observing for some time now that some users are actually misusing the option of editing their forum post. This is partly due to the fact that the time stamp for the message is not updated when the edit is done. It still shows the time when it was posted.

Especially in the ABAP Programming Forum, there's a mad rush (among a few people) to be the first one to answer the question. In this hurry they are often making a post with an incorrect answer. Later on when they are told that what they have said is incorrect, they are simply editing the post and inserting the correct answer, which is known by then. This is sometimes resulting in multiple correct answers to a question and in the occassional case where the user wants to reward the correct answer, the points would actually go to these edited messages, because of their timestamp.

In a few other cases, the questions are being edited by the guy asking the question. Especially after having received some answers. When the question changes, the answers aren't correct any longer, obviously. At a later point someone attempting to answer the question would be left wondering why this question had had so many wrong answers!!

It sounds too string a step to take to remove this functionality. But may be we could allow this with some reservations. For example - all the content that has been deleted from a post can be highlighted (a function that is similar to the Modification Assistant in SAP or the Reviewing feature in MS-Word).

What say ?

Regards,

Anand Mandalika.

[Former Member]

Hi all,

First, why bother: -- just show messages in chronological order according to last edit time and display last edit time only (equals to creation time when message is just submitted).

Second, there are 3 situations when edit is necessary:

1. Spelling errors

Suggestion: if user submits message not from spell checking form, check spelling automatically and warn user before actually save message. As a side effect, readability of posts will improve.

2. Formatting issues

Suggestion: system should check for at unclosing / unmatching formatting tags and warn user before saving issues

3. "Misuse" discussed here.

So after applying suggestions to [1] and [2] the only necessity for edit is misuse. Then it is quite safe to narrow edit window to 5 minutes.

VS

[former_member374]

Hi SDNers,

> ... that some users are actually misusing the option of editing their forum post.

I thought about it again, how many people are actually doing this? If it is only 5 we can send them an email and tell them that this behavior is not tolerated.

Did it get better since we are open discussing this issue here?

May be we don't need to change the framework.

Let me know, Mark.

[Former Member]

I would hate to see restrictions on the editing, e.g. after certain time or if another reply has been posted.

While the forums serve as a discussion vehicle, they also serve has an archive/documentation/training aid, and in those roles, the ability to edit something long after it was originally posted comes in handy. Which gets us back perhaps to the Wiki capability........

[stefan_grube]

I think it is a good feature to be able to edit the thread even weeks after the posting. A lot of guys search for topics, you can see that some question, which were covered months ago, are not asked any more.

Sometimes I find a typo in an old thread in a configuration example or maybe in a code sample. I think it is better to change it without comment. When other user see them and they have read it already, they see, that it is updated. That should be information enough.

I think, the misbehavior of a few guys should not all the other guys, who want to do good work.

Regards

Stefan

[Former Member]

Stefan,

How it differs from replying to your own post with correct (or more robust) code, more comments etc? Does it really matters that there are two messages instead of one?

VS

[Former Member]

I would like the edit feature, but I agree with Anand about the misuse of it.

Why not provide the edit feature, but instead allowing the original being modified, you simply add the edited one to the end of the thread? That way, you have the original version at the point of time when it was created and then the edited version of it at the end of the chain with a different timestamp.

It works more like the reply piece, but copies the original text.

Srinivas

[Former Member]

I would <b>love to have</b> the edit feature, but I agree with Anand about the misuse of it.

Why not provide the edit feature, but instead allowing the original being modified, you simply add the edited one to the end of the thread? That way, you have the original version at the point of time when it was created and then the edited version of it at the end of the chain with a different timestamp.

It works more like the reply piece, but copies the original text.

Srinivas

--- above is my edited text. I did this with a reply button, but would like to see this happening with the edit button.

Message was edited by: Srinivas Adavi

[Former Member]

The problem with that is that we then run the risk of having so many entries in the message that someone new coming to read it may get lost and frustrated with not knowing where the solution lies.

[Former Member]

Are the edited messages so many that they cause this kind of issue?

If that is the case, then simply remove the original one and add the edited one to the end of the thread.

[Former Member]

I have to agree with Craig - if every message that has been edited gets posted again, I think it could become very confusing.

The concern over a few "bad apples" should not drive the way the forums work. As long as there is a mechanism to bring a post or group of posts to the attention of a moderator is available, that should be sufficient. Once someone is sanctioned, e.g. blocked from posting, loss of points, etc., a time or two, they should get the message, and if they don't, boot 'em off.

[maximilian_schaufler]

I too don't think having double posts is a good idea, but the example double post brought up another idea:

Make the edit function an "append function", so the post could get changed, but the original text stays the same.

Sure not the best for "pro-users", as their possibilites get restricted as well, but it would rule out the bad guys, if it would be visible what was present in their first post before editing.

Just another thought,

Max

[thomasalexander_ritter]

Hi,

that is the reason why I love the "watch thread" option. When I see that the first mail I get contains useless information but later the post was changed. Then this user will be on my blacklist and will not get any points.

@Mark

I would use the second idea. 15 minutes seems enough time to correct all the typos which might slipped through. But it makes me sad that such a feature has to be implemented. It seems we see the "dark-side" of the point system, now

regards

Thomas

[former_member374]

Hi Everyone,

Wow, the point system is driving good and bad behavior.

We are watching/being part of an evolution of a system.

We have switches actually to deal with the problem.

1) Users can edit their message as long as their are no replies to it.

2) Users may edit their posts but only for a specific amount of time (for example 15 minutes) after posting a message.

Problem with number one is if people are posting really fast your window of opportunity to change your post is small.

Problem with number two is you still can play the game and post as the first one and wait 10 minutes for the correct solution to come in and correct your solution in the remaining 5 minutes. But we could set the window to 10 minutes.

Let me know which one you prefer and I will change it accordingly.

Will be interesting, Mark.

[Former Member]

Hi

What about this scenario, is it bad behaviour?

User sees a question and knows the answer perfectly , but inorder to reserve the spot as the first answer, he types in "The Answer is ..." and posts the message. (This might more that often reserves the spot). Then he comes back and gives the most elaborative of answers , without referring others answers.(at his own comfort)

Regards

Pran

[Former Member]

Hi Everyone,

In my opinnion Marks suggestion about the time window for editing the post is quite good and time window could be set even to 5min.

Then one thing also which just pop in my mind. There has been a lot of discussion about users contributing their time to forums and answering the threads. Sadly often nobody will get any points since the user won't even bother to come back even the answers are correct. Would it be bad idea to give for example two points for each 10 answers? You could think these points more like a price for the given time..

Don't know if this a good idea but this is the suggestions forum right? Does anyone else think there would be some room for this kind of feature?

Regards,

Ville

[maximilian_schaufler]

Instead of setting some time limit to the edit function, why not restrict the editing itself?

So maybe think of editing as "adding" content to the post - would still allow to post the fixed content passages, but leave the old in (as to prevent this post-first-answer-later behaviour).

Of course, moderators should still be able to use "edit" as "edit" (e.g. to delete advertising content, ...) easily.

[Ashwin]

Hi!

I wonder why dont you just put the edited timestamp to the message and display the message as edited... i think its simple or may be you can add the edited time in post script of the message.

with regards

ashwin

[Former Member]

I think I have to agree with Ashwin.

Post <u>all</u> edit timestamps in the reply, even the ones where the checkbox to show the edit msg is not checked. It should become evident then that the original version of Reply 1 was edited a couple of minutes after reply 2. Anyone watching the thread can check their e-mail to see what original reply looked like. Extend the timestamp for the post and edits to seconds if necessary.

Another possibility - show all the edit timestamps in the reply as links to each version of the reply.

Now all we need is a way to vote someone off the island if they are not behaving.

[Former Member]

Interesting idea, a way to show revisions would certainly show that the message was changed and what was changed and help to prevent those types of problems.

Whether our forum can handle that or not is of course another question.

[Former Member]

The run for points reveals some really weird attitudes...

Maybe it's the easiest thing just to remove the select box that shows up when editing a post ("Add the following text to the message - this indicates when changes were made and by whom.")

Just add a line like "Message was edited by ... on <date>" for every change instead.

Regards, Karsten

[Former Member]

The problem there is to know what changes were made in which case the color or syntax would be nice?

Although as a first step that is a very good idea!