SOA

[Former Member]

Hi Everybody...

Can any one explain in detail How the SAP's approach for SOA is different from IBM and Oracle.

Regards

[Former Member]

Hello there!

I'm new at SAP and I come from Oracle! As "funny" as it sounds I used to work for the competition, therefore I think I can tell you the differences between SAP's approach and Oracle's.

Moreover, I have recently certified IBM's Websphere modeler for SOA Suite (at college).

A few days ago, I went to an eSOA presentation here at SAP.

It's a different approach because we give web services definitions already! I mean: Oracle & IBM don't give their customers a standard definition of enterprise services for their businesses. At Oracle or IBM, you first have to identify and select a number of services that managers think relevant for their business (many months of work and many process experts working). But, on the other hand, SAP does not have BPEL directly "talking" with the process logic. In my opinion, that is a weak point.

I'll check my stuff at home (so that I can be precise) and tomorrow I'll tell you what I researched.

Regards!

[Former Member]

welcome to the forum Maria. looking forward to your contributions.

regards, anton

[Former Member]

It is unfortunate people asking what is the difference between SAP's SOA and other's SOA. There is not difference at all except the FACT SAP in a business computing firm and others are mainly technical firm.

Since SAP is a firm in most their past concentrated on Business Solution through their ERP modules and client server technology when they have entered into Netweaver and SOA market, they had numerous predefined enterprise services available.

However IBM and others are mainly going to market with tools and expetize domain knowledge they advice client to understand the business needs as it is and develop their solution using SOA Architecture principles and their own tools and SOA enabled technology.

Even though Oracle was an ERP company, they never had a standard approach to provide any interface based computing for ERP solutions. So when they entered into SOA wolrd through Fusion, they did not have a predefined enterprise services.

If you look into Oracle and SAP ERP modules, integration with SAP is even easy prior to SOA or Enterprise Service availability. However if you look into Oracle Supply chain or Finance it is hard cuz it all based on crazy, complicated PL/SQL programs.

We should look into SOA as a vendor solution. Each vendor use the SOA concept in different context.

SAP use it to sell their traditional best ERP solution backed up by a best interface model (BAPI, IDOC, RFC etc) using SOA technology such as web services. As long as you have a best interface solution it is very easy to make it SOA enabled cuz SOA is all about implementation independent interface based computing and build better goverance and management around it.

SAP had an edge in ERP world using SOA cuz they tradionally followed good practice. Oracle still strugling to push enterprise services cuz they have to do a lot of home work.

Thanks

[Former Member]

I agree with Shaji -- That is perhaps the best reply!

[Former Member]

I do not get. although Shaji's contribution is a good analysis, he starts saying that is unfortunate to talk about different approaches to SOA just to continue elaborating on these vendors' different approaches to SOA.

Actually, to me it's a fact that there are different approaches to SOA. And SOA itself is not so strong a paradigm that it wouldn't allow diiferent approaches or interpretations.

my 2 cents,

anton

[Former Member]

AS a company each vendor has different objective to utilize an Architecture principle. Once during a session I have asked a number of big guys in IBM about their C++ support in WebSphere 6 family products that include websphere ESB 6.0. My concern was about their tight intension to support C++ programming support in ESB where all of the major modules are based on J2EE. He told me, traditionally IBM have a lot of products such as IBM advanced ESB, IBM workplace etc etc which are purely done in C++ and their websphere products are just continuation of what ever they were doing as a vendor.

So even though IBM agreed to use J2EE and JAVA technology extensively in WebSphere 6.0 family as an organization they have their own plan and objectives which are made based on their objectives towards current technology, past client base, future client base etc.

Same way when each vendor adopt SOA as an Architecture framework, even though it is an Architecture principle preach about an implementation independent IT enablement of business needs, each vendor can only do with respect to what ever they have been doing for years.

When an Architecture principle (SOA) is applied to a product or framework (WebSphere, Fusion, Netweaver etc) even in a platform itself, even though the end result support the technology based on the architecture principle (Web Service) the outcome is most influenced based on the vision and business stream of the firm which use the architecture principle.

When we apply an architecture principle to our intension and if we create our own variant of the end result does not mean that there is a difference in the principle itself.

SO asking a question such as "What is the difference in SAP's SOA, IBM SOA and Oracle SOA is wrong" and an Architecture forum should not promote such question without correcting the fundamental difference between an Architecture Principle and the End result of such a principles application to a product and framework from a vendor.

I can further explain it, an automobile engine concept is a principle and it is applied to different company's automobile products. Even though Benz, GM and BMW apply same concepts to different context with different strategy, the concept or principle behind it remain SAME. Same applied to SOA products from different vendors. SOA as an Architecture principle remain SAME however based on the applied context and intension behind the vendor, their SOA strategy and end result may be varying.

SO correct usage will be what is the difference between SAP’s Netweaver SOA platform, IBM’s WebSphere SOA Platform and Oracle’s SOA Platform?. Each vendor has used an Architecture principle to create products and framework not really created the architecture principle itself.

[Former Member]

Anton,

Besides his very thoughtful elaboration by examples, the place where I just seem to completely agree with him is:

<i>"SAP had an edge in ERP world using SOA cuz they tradionally followed good practice. Oracle still strugling to push enterprise services cuz they have to do a lot of home work"</i>

There are several technologically superior SOA implementations, but I don't think any one can come close to SAP when it comes to richness of ERP offerings, and therefore eSOA has an inherent advantage.

[Former Member]

Could you let us know which offerings you are thinking of when you say there are many "technologically superior SOA implementations" to SAP eSOA?

[Former Member]

<i>There are several technologically superior SOA implementations, but I don't think any one can come close to SAP when it comes to richness of ERP offerings, and therefore eSOA has an inherent advantage. </i>

SOA is a platform for service oriented IT enablement of business using services with proper governance and management of service to address dynamic nature of business right. In order to do that we need service enabled platform to address all concerns.

What is a service enabled platform, it is a service layer in enterprise architecture. A service layer in Enterprise is implemented using products to address specific needs of service layer that include

1. Service Bus

2. Service Repository

3. Service Registry

4. Service Management framework

5. Service Governance framework

6. Service modeling framework

7. Service middleware platform

8. Standard compliance

When you consider all these FACTS so traditionally super players such as IBM has an edge in service layers, there tools address the service layer scope in a wide level.

However when it come ERP practice, since SAP has traditionally strong values, their SOA enablement is far better than any other offering available.

How ever some of the tool level decision SAP made in terms of SOA layer is driven more towards a vendor specific goal which can be questioned in an open SOA world technologies as frameworks for enterprise service layers.

Personally some of them

1. ABAP usage in a service layer EAI or ESB tool such as XI or PI

2. Lacks of an open source based IDE support in SOA bus layer

3. Service specification not supporting multiple operations ( I think recently added)

4. SCA SDO adoptions

5. Policy and governance integration from well known external service provider

6. Well defined and advanced business process options ( it is there but still not as like BPEL for human tasks, Business rule engine integration etc)

7. Consolidation of service metrics collection for business optimization

And this list can go on and on

However when we look for well suited service enabled ERP solutions based on industry standards, SAP has an outstanding position and I hope based on the progress they made in Netweaver as a platform they can be one of the best in the near future too.

(Note: This is an independent opinion, please do not bark back on me)

Thanks

[sbhutani1]

Hi Vedika,

Please refer to the below mentioned document, which is the best ever document for descibing the SAP SOA architecture deeply.

http://www.actional.com/resources/webinars/Jumpstarting-SOA/SOA-SAP.html

well SAP SOA is different from others because SAP specific SOA is called eSOA that means there is an Enterprise functionality which is combined to the services exposed by SAP.

In IBM SOA, this is only the technical service oriented communication concept which is used to communicate between distributed computing.

Well if we talk about oracle which is a competitor of SAP is also heavily investing in SOA, oracle has recently introduced its product called Fusion, which is based on SOA technology to give a competition to SAP eSOA.

You can refer this link for more details about oracle SOA strategy.

http://www.oracle.com/technologies/soa/index.html

Now if you want to compare these three IBM, Oracle and SAP then this is the very good article written by Mark Brunelli. This will answer all your queries regarding the comparison between Oracle and SAP SOA factor.

http://searchoracle.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid41_gci1259116,00.html

Regards

Sumit Bhutani