Adobe Interactive Forms without Web Dynpro and ACF???

[Former Member]

Hi All, we would like to build an interactive forms solution based on the Adobe software integrated into WAS. However, the customer requires a true thin client application with no additional installation on the client. Integrating Adobe Interactive Forms into Web DynPro however requires the Active Component Framework (ACF) to be installed since these forms are integrated into the page within an ActiveX container.

So the question is whether there is a way to use Adobe Interactive forms including the Adobe Documents Service within WAS but without(!) using Web Dynpro?(the full blown Adobe LifCycle Forms solution is not an option). Any suggestions on this are highly appreciated!

Tanks!

Frodo

[Former Member]

Hi Frodo,

I am not entirely clear on your complete post, in the first one you are asking about using a front end without any additional installations, in the second one you are asking about approaches of using Interactive forms without any involvement in Web Dynpro.

Well for the first part unfortunately there is no option available now, and it would require ACF definitely on the front end.

Regarding the second post, print forms is one option to explore on, but regarding the interactive part, you need to use Web Dynpro.

Regards,

Pavan

[Former Member]

Hi Pavan,

The non SAP approach on Adobe Interactive Forms is called Adobe LiceCycle Forms which obviously doesn't require any Web Dynpro development. You can create the Forms using Adobe Designer, with or without using the NetWeaver Developer Studio including specific interactions with a data source (e.g. an XML file or Database). On their web site, Adobe claims this solutions requires no additional plug-ins on the client whatsoever.

Frodo

[Former Member]

Hi,

I hope there is no solution without webdynpros, thing is how do drag and drop your UI elements in to Adobe forms the only way is NWDS/webdynpros, once your form is ready you can crete an iview in EP. But without using webdynpros i don't think you can solve this problem.

hope this helped you

Regards,

RK

[Former Member]

Hi RK,

Maybe you are right but to me using Web DynPro is just SAP's implementation of integrating Adobe Forms (please see my post below on Adobe LiveCycle Forms). I'm not very familiar with Web Dynpro myself but creating form templates including UI elements like buttons, using Adobe Deisgner, doesn't require Web DynPro. Of course, you will still needs ADS to create your .pdf documents on the fly based on the .xpd template. I still think ACF is a limitation for any extranet/intranet implementation because, besides the installation requirement, you simple can't always control on which OS or IE your forms solution will run ("so you're using Windows '98, Linux, Apple or none IE browser? Tough luck, you can not use our Forms integrated into a Web DynPro application"). Non ACF/Web DynPro solutions can be build but any insight on whether this can be achieved using ADS in WAS is higly appreciated.

Cheers!

Frodo

[markus_meisl]

Hello everyone,

I would like to add a couple of points from the SAP Product Management perspective.

Adobe has a number of stand-alone products that are the foundation for what SAP can now offer thanks to our partnership. This is exactly why we decided on a partnership that provides us with established technology, which is now integrated.

It is true that Web Dynpro is the main SAP way of integrating the interactive functions of the solution. We made this decision consciously, because the development and run-time environments provide very useful features that reduce the need for manual coding, such as the possibility of passing the data back to the backend using the Web Dynpro context. The automatism we offer here needs to be implemented from scratch with any other solution, including the Adobe stand-alone one.

While it is true that the ACF constitutes a certain limitation for the reasons you mention, Adobe will remedy this in 2005. The Reader/Web Dynpro integration will be available later this year for multiple platforms (OS, browsers) and will not require ACF anymore.

If you do not want to use a full-blown Web Dynpro application for your concrete scenario, consider developing an application that provides nothing but the interactive PDF form to the end user, to be filled in using the stand-alone Reader. The submit of the form data (with or without the PDF itself) could then happen via HTTP or e-mail.

Kind regards,

Markus Meisl

SAP NetWeaver Product Management

[Former Member]

Markus, can you clarify one thing for me? Am I correct in assuming that as of today, Adobe Interactive Forms cannot be used on a Linux client? Or, would a better statement be that Adobe IF is only available via Internet Explorer on Windows? From your statement

> While it is true that the ACF constitutes a certain

> limitation for the reasons you mention, Adobe will

> remedy this in 2005. The Reader/Web Dynpro

> integration will be available later this year for

> multiple platforms (OS, browsers) and will not

> require ACF anymore.

you seem to be saying that other OS's will be supported in the future. Does this include Linux on the client side?

Thanks!

[markus_meisl]

Hi Ken,

it certainly does.

The new Reader/Web Dynpro integration is designed to not install any plug-ins and work independently of specific client-side platforms.

What SAP and Adobe are working on is the client-side support of:

- OS: Win 2K and XP, SuSE Linux Professional 9 and 9.1 and Enterprise Desktop 9, RedHat Fedora Core 2, and RedHat Enterprise Linux Workstation 3

- Browser: IE 6.0 on Win, Firefox 1.0 on Win and Linux, possibly support for Mozilla on Win and Linux

This is the current development <b>PLAN</b> for this year, therefore please don't take this information as an SAP commitment at this point in time. The strategy, however, is clear: Platform- and browser-independent Reader/Web Dynpro integration.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Markus

[Former Member]

Great info Markus, thanks!

Just to clarify: <b>today</b>, with NW 04, you <b>cannot</b> developer Adobe IF's using Linux on the developer workstation. At some point in the future, you will be able to use Linux as both a developer platform, and as a client platform.

Do I have this right?

[Former Member]

Hi Markus,

Thanks! This is exactly the kind of information we were’ looking for. The 'work around' you are referring too sounds promising but is there any documentation or other information available on how to build or use adobe Interactive Forms without integrating them into Web DynPro (but still using the integrated Adobe Document Service) and thus eliminating the need for the Active Component Framework?

Frodo

[Former Member]

Hello Ken,

Markus was talking about the client environment not the development environment. Since the Adobe LiveCycle Designer is a Windows only application you cannot develop today and also in the foreseeable future Interactive Forms on a Linux development environment (unless you want to try expermenting and using a Windows emulator on Linux).

However the end user will be able to use Interactive Forms integrated in Web Dynpro on Linux in the foreseeable future.

Cheers

Matthias

[Former Member]

Hello Frodo,

I doubt that this documentation currently exisits. But with a little bit of playing around and using the Adobe LiveCycle Designer documentation you should be able to accomplish integration of forms with SAP outside of the Web Dynpro context. You could for example use the transaction SFP in the ABAP Workbench to design the form and if required the interface to SAP to pre-populate the form with data (that is documented). Once you have developed the "forms generation program" you will need to decide how you want to distribute the form, e.g. via email, web application etc.

Then you need to decide how you want to get the data back into SAP (that is where the custom work is required). Do you want to receive the complete PDF or just the XML data from the PDF? Do you want to receive the data via HTTP, Web Services or email? Lets say you want to receive the XML data via HTTP. You just need to put a button on the form (Object/Field/Control Type: Submit; Object/Submit/Set Submit format and submit address URL). On the other end you need an HTTP listener application your Web AS and then process the incoming data.

This will work without a specific plug-in on the client side and also will work with the new Reader for Linux.

Cheers!

Matthias

[markus_meisl]

Hi Frodo,

let me add that it is also possible to envision Web Dynpro development for the development and 'administration' of the forms in the background. You can then provide an HTML page (Web Dynpro or other) with a link or button for downloading the PDF form, at which point the process Matthias describes kicks in.

We are hoping to have a few tutorials in SDN by the middle of June that show how you can develop an upload/download scenario with Interactive Forms.

Regards,

Markus

[nol_hendrikx]

Hi Markus & Matthias,

Plannings are (it is a plan that end of the year we don't need ACF anymore. That is nice, since we don't have to install it ar a large number of computers.

I have some questions:

1) Is this part of MySAP ERP 2005? Or is it a part of a new Adobe Document Service release? Or a part of Netweaver?

2) Via what technology will the Adobe form encapsulated within the WebDynpro (in our case IsrForm)? Is this via IFRAMES?

Thanks for your input in these discussion forms, I'll appreciate it!

Kind regards,

Noel Hendrikx

[markus_meisl]

Hi Noel,

my answer on the first question reflects the current state of affairs, which may change in time, though.

1. This will be part of SAP NetWeaver 2004s, which is the technology foundation for mySAP ERP 2005. To my knowledge, there will be no stand-alone shipment of SAP NetWeaver 2004s.

Just a note: Adobe document services are only shipped as part of NetWeaver, not as a separate release, although they may be patched separately.

Another note: SAP and Adobe are currently discussing (nothing else!) the implications of downporting the zero-install Reader integration to NetWeaver 04.

2. As with the 'standard' Web Dynpro integration, ISR uses what we have: The integration through the InteractiveForm UI element.

Kind regards,

Markus

[nol_hendrikx]

Hi Markus,

Thanks for your quick response!!!

Regarding point 1:

If I understood you right, we should use MySAP ERP2005 (and NW 04) to use Adobe forms without ACF and Active-X.

Regarding point 2:

As you described this is the current situation, right?

My question is based on a non-ACF/Active-X situation.

regards,

Noel

[markus_meisl]

Hi Noel,

if you want to use a Reader/Web Dynpro integration without ActiveX components, you will have to use mySAP ERP 2005, which is based on SAP NetWeaver 2004s (the small s being important here). 2004s is a newer release of SAP NetWeaver, sits underneath mySAP ERP 2005, and is not planned to be shipped separately.

As for the integration of Interactive Forms into Web Dynpro, you need to differenciate between the design/development time and the runtime.

The runtime (see above) uses a Reader integration that currently needs the ACF (it is an Adobe/SAP control).

The design time in standard Web Dynpro for Java development and ISR uses the InteractiveForms UI element, and this will not change. It is, if I understand you correctly, also no issue for you.

Regards,

Markus

[nol_hendrikx]

Hi Markus,

Too bad I can't reward you points

Regards,

Noel

[Former Member]

Hi Matthias,

We need to generate many different types of interactive pdfs on the fly from data and xdp templates using ABAP. In a FM, we are currently calling a web service we've written to take advantage of the IWDPDFObject on the Java stack.

Since creation of pdfs is routine on our system, all the xml processing and web service calls involved are causing all sorts of memory/performance issues.

Once created, we are happy to display/edit the pdfs in the WebDynpro InteractiveFormUI element - we just need a simpler way of generating them!

Is it possible to write a FM in ABAP that takes an xdp template generated in Adobe Designer and combines it with name-value pairs to produce a pdf?

i.e. is there an ABAP (FM/Class) equivalent of the IWDPDFObject we can call?

Many thanks,

Russell

p.s. We are using a records management system to store all these pdfs and xdp templates!

[markus_meisl]

Hi Russell,

for SAP it was always a given that we would implement access to the ADS in both the ABAP and the Java world. So for ABAP, try the class CL_FP_PDF_OBJECT, which is the ABAP implementation of the PDF Object. In addition, our development colleagues provide test programs showing how to use the PDF Object (search for the programs FP_PDF_TEST*).

As you are on NetWeaver '04, working in the ABAP world (transaction SFP) with PDF forms used for data entry in interactive scenarios usually requires manual coding that is not necessary in the Web Dynpro framework. In particular, SFP does not provide an automatic way back for the data entered by the end user in the form (as Web Dynpro does through the WD context). Web Dynpro for ABAP, which uses parts of SFP and will be available in NW 2004s, solves this issue.

What intrigues me is the fact that you use Records Mgmt to store the form templates. Is there a particular reason for not using the standard storage scheme for the XDP filed?

Kind regards,

Markus Meisl

SAP NetWeaver Product Management