Arguments for use AiE instead SE80

[stefan_schnell]

Hello community,

in our company we discuss a lot about the using of AiE instead of the SE80 transaction. The most developers remain on the SE80. They uses it since a long time and they uses it by heart and from memory. From this points it is very difficult to convince this developers to use another IDE. For this reason I am searching for arguments to use AiE instead SE80. I found a few here.

In a discussion with Thomas he told me that you must change your working mode to code more efficient with AiE as in SE80, e.g. to use shortcuts. For that you need some practice. Also Quick Fixes and Templates a really important to avoid typing. And ABAP Doc is important to understand code easily.

As I write above I am searching for more arguments to use AiE.

What are your arguments to use AiE?

Thanks for (many) arguments.

Cheers

Stefan

[ChrisSolomon]

Why are you looking for "arguments"? Why not simply let them use what they are most comfortable with? You might find AiE "more efficient", however if they are comfortable with SE80, they will know their way around yet in AiE will be lost and waste a lot of time just trying to "figure out" the IDE itself. Personally, I like both. I don't look at it as "either or".

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Christopher,

thanks for your reply.

That is a good point. But you write it by yourself "I like both". This means you know both.

My perspective is that developers reject Eclipse, without any further or minor inspection.

Cheers

Stefan

[Szczerbowski]

Hi,

Perform some coding dojos with examples where Eclipse is better than SE80. If that does not buy them, a list of arguments wont either.

M.

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Michal,

thank you, a very good idea.

Cheers

Stefan

[ChrisSolomon]

But again....I ask...why do you feel the need to force them into it if they are quite comfortable and can get the same job done in SE80?

The major hurdle in getting them to even look at AiE will be making all the set up easy for them. For me, it was a pain....took time....and once done, I still have to make sure to keep it up to date. For someone in SE80-land, they are oblivious to that. haha And I was even "use to" Eclipse as I had used it for Java development in the past.

I guess I will go back to the original question....why do you want them on AiE so badly? What is the case for it? ....because right now, it just comes off as "I like AiE and so should you!".

I think it is better if they show the interest themselves and then have someone like you there to help "show them around" versus "arguing" them into it. And I may a bit of an exception as well because when I am in SAP, I am not only in SE80....I will have SE80 going (maybe a couple of sessions), some transaction like PA20 to look up data....some transaction running to test....and usually another client loaded up as well......so it is easier for me to flip around in SAP GUI sessions than flip to an IDE and back to SAP GUI and back to the external IDE and back to SAP GUI.....get what I mean?

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Christopher,

thanks for your reply,

I understand what you mean. Let me clarify my question:

Cases which can be work more efficient with AIE instead SE80

Sorry for my misleading title.

Cheers

Stefan

[Former Member]

I started to use AiE a few months ago and in this short time i fell in love with one specific feature: renaming of variables.

Just shortcut and eclipse renames the variable in the whole source code...I absolutely love this Feature. Although there are much more cool things like code completion and or if you mark a variable in the source code, on the right you can see where this variable is used, no more searching via ctrl+f... the removing of all unused variable declarations...

It is a Little bit tricky and uncomfortable at first, but when you are getting to use it, it is great.

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Alexander,

thanks for sharing your experience.

Cheers

Stefan

[markusschenk]

I am using Eclipse since its first release and I stumbled about a lot of useful things I miss in SE80 like Tasks (+Cloud integration), Data Element Info, Refactoring, Quickfixes, AbapDoc, just a better overwiev because of the dynamic layout “just like I need it right now” and simple things like “more sessions to open etc. . For me the best feature is the “just in time” problem display for errors (misspelled variable) or warnings (*wuuups* forgot the try.catch :/).

But eclipse also has his magic moments when it is a real pain in the a** like when the project explorer is loading all day long or you just have to debug and modify a program with a lot of enhancements. If I have to handle these I find myself in SE80 again because that’s the place to be for me to have a better overview of the complete coding.

I know you should not answer a question with a question but why do YOU use Eclipse instead of SE80?

Maybe it is “already enough” to show your colleagues how you handle a new report and show them the features they will miss in SE80. An old hand will not change his familiar and well known environment just because something is new but there is a chance if you can show him the usefulness of the new possibilities to improve his daily work.

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Markus,

thanks for sharing your experience.

"An old hand will not change his familiar and well known environment just because something is new but there is a chance if you can show him the usefulness of the new possibilities to improve his daily work." This is a good approach.

Cheers

Stefan

[SuhaSaha]

Hi Stefan,

I have the same dilemma. All our internal developers(including me) have been working with ADT for quite sometime and we're quite comfortable with it. Now i have to convince the external developers to start using ADT.

I agree with on using both SE80 & ADT. IMHO, the debugger in ADT is not as powerful as the native one I miss features like -

• Setting step size - very useful in debugging the new ABAP functional operators like FOR, SWITCH et al.
• SLAD - useful when debugging Std. code with lots of custom enhancements
• Debugging script

in ADT.

Also not all the development objects are currently supported by ADT. But IMO, ADT is evolving and new features are being added with each new feature.

BR,

Suhas

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Suhas,

thanks for your reply. Interesting that you are in the same dilemma.

Cheers

Stefan

[Carifaine]

Additionally to the previous answer i just want to add that there a lot of little things you cannot argue about - you have to experience them in your every day work. Things like using code completion with wildcards to search and code at the same time; generating already coded but not declared and implemented methods through a simple quick fix which also suggests the parameters; using code completion while creating a data element instead of f4 help and so on.

It is really difficult to get somebody to eclipse just by collecting arguments. You need to catch them emotionally and you can only do that by personal experience. Just schedule a little hands-on-meeting for one hour and perform a specific task in eclipse and show them all those little goodies while they can test them directly. If that does not lead to a mental switch, you won't be the one who can trigger this.

Also be open to what is NOT great or will be difficult at first like forward navigation with f3 while u used f3 to go back in sap gui and so on. Try to prepare them as good as possible to avoid mental barriers.

Personally i think AiE is the only viable IDE for the future. New features will mostly be available in AiE only except new abap syntax and already is pretty helpful at many scenarios. I think it's totally okay to convince your colleagues that AiE is a really great IDE by now and will get even better in the future.

[SuhaSaha]

generating already coded but not declared and implemented methods through a simple quick fix which also suggests the parameters

Method extraction, you mean. I'm a huge fan of it, modularisation can't be easier

Another point that came to my mind is ADT is really useful if you are developing in OO. I'm not sure if ADT can work with subroutines, global variables etc.

That means asking the people to start using OO, which is in itself a big challenge in itself

[Szczerbowski]

I keep telling people structural ABAP is obsolete since 2013, so they are obsolete too

[Carifaine]

Well it works with subroutines etc., but it's even less comfortable than se80 . No quick fixes for that etc. as far as i know.

[SuhaSaha]

Well it works with subroutines etc., but it's even less comfortable than se80

That's exactly what i meant My wording is confusing, sorry!

[michael_gutfleisch]

Suhas Saha wrote:

generating already coded but not declared and implemented methods through a simple quick fix which also suggests the parameters
Method extraction, you mean. I'm a huge fan of it, modularisation can't be easier 

Well, it is not method extraction - it is "Generate Method from Call". You just write a call to a method which does not yet exist and let the tool create its declaration and an empty implementation.

"Extract Method" is triggered on a sequence of existing statements and moves these statements into a new method. Alternatively you can extract a method from an existing expression.

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Christoph,

thank you very much for your tips.

Cheers

Stefan

[Jelena]

Christopher beat me to it, but I'd also ask - what exactly are your trying to achieve? Are there some major advantages for the whole organization if everyone starts using AiE? Or is it just that you want to make everyone agree with you?

Personally, I use SE37/SE38 (rarely have to go to SE80 for something else) with an old editor just because I like it more. I'm not uncomfortable with the new editor and I used MS Visual Studio and other IDEs before with no issues. But personally I find that all those bells and whistles and especially colors tend to distract me from the thought process, which I consider important.

We don't have Eclipse here, I've used it in some hands-on sessions and immediately disliked it. But if someone wanted to use it I'd be OK with it. And if I was a consultant then, of course, I'd have to comply with the client's requirements. Whatever floats your boat.

But at the end all the code arrives in Production and my top concern is that it is a good code, not how it was created. Some battles are just not worth picking IMHO.

I applaud you for the willingness to educate your team mates about the Eclipse advantages but if it comes off as "Eclipse or bust" then it could be in vain. Actually since you've mentioned you've already discussed this a lot maybe it's time to cool it off a bit? Maybe talk to others about what they like? I wouldn't want you to become "ugh, this guy with his bleeping Eclipse again" to your team mates.

[ŁukaszPęgiel]

Although I guess I'll be not popular here, then I see one big advantage of AIE, but only after developers learn to use it (Ctrl+1 + some more stuff): It's really much faster to develop ABAP OO (but not only).

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Jelena,

thanks for your reply.

It is not my intention to make everyone agree with me, I want to collect cases which can be work more efficient with AiE instead SE80. This cases should build a base of arguments for other developers to take a look left and right, to explore other ways of procedures.

Cheers

Stefan

[ŁukaszPęgiel]

Stefan,

you can look on this two blogs, maybe they'll give you some hints:

-

- ABAPblog.com - Why I like to code in ABAP in Eclipse

Cheers

Łukasz

[stefan_schnell]

Hello Lukasz,

thank you very much for the interesting links.

Cheers

Stefan