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Overtime on Public Holiday in Positive Time

Former Member
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Hi ,

I am working on Overtime calculation in Positive Time with approved OT.We have below requirement for OT calculation on Public Holiday on a working day.

  • If an employee works on Public Holiday, he will be paid OT with Shift allowance.
  • As they have shift allowance, the OT should be calculated as per the planned time mentioned in DWS excluding the scheduled unpaid break.

As per the configuration that I did, it is calculating OT but not considering the unpaid break.It is giving both planned hours and Overtime hours.

  • Planned Hours: System is generating a planned pair on public holiday,with pair type 2 & time Identifier 02 & converting the processing type from 'A' to 'S' after DEFTP. In GOT its considering this S as planned hours only.
  • Overtime: When we give clock in/out as per scheduled time, system is generating a time pair with pair type 1 & time Identifier 01.In GOT function it is converting this pair into OT with Processing type 'M' but not excluding the unpaid break.

Please suggest how can I achieve the client requirement of calculation OT on PH with Scheduled time & unpaid break.


Expecting for the knowledgeable consultants to share their knowledge & help me resolve the issue.

Thanks

Haritha.

Accepted Solutions (1)

Accepted Solutions (1)

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

By using P2011 function & adding OWTI to PBRKS, we are getting the pairs with break.But I observe that the break created from 2011 entry is changing the time identifier in PBRKS output.Please check the screnshots below.

If we can rectify this change of time identifier I think we can get the required output without using PCR.

Please help me understand the reason for change in time Identifier.

PBRKS Input:

PBRKS Output:

DEFTP Output:It is generating a new pair from 11:43 to 11:53

Regards,

Haritha.

jagan_gunja
Active Contributor
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As I said before, a PCR with operation TMBRE can be used repeatedly to combine different time pairs.  See example below

         TMBRE B   TMBRE U   TMBRE K

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

I can help you with the PCR for the approach I have given where I have introduced TIMTP function after P2011 function.

Let me know if you wish to take this approach.

Regards,

Vivek Barnwal

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

Would like to try this approach.

Regards,

Haritha

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

Here is the solution.

Create 2 daily time types - ZAAA and ZAAB. Refer my blog - to understand about daily time types.

Create the first PCR Z123 as shown below:

Place this PCR in your positive time schema after function TIMTP which you placed after function P2011.

It needs to be placed as below:

RTIP    Z123    GEN

Create the 2nd PCR Z234 as shown below:

Place this PCR after DEFTP function in the schema as shown below:

PTIP    Z234   GEN

I hope after you implement the above solution, it will resolve your issue.

Regards,

Vivek Barnwal

Answers (19)

Answers (19)

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

There is a new issue for OT on PH.

When employee works on PH, if approved OT < clockin/out, by default system should calculate OT as per Approved Hours.But I see a different behavior where it is calculating OT only for hours more that 8.4(which is planned working time).As we gave TGMAX as 12 hours, it is converting the remaining of 12-8.4 hours into OT. This issue is arising only when the clockout is before the shift end time.

Eg: DWS: 7:30 to 16:20, Approved OT: 7:30 to 15:20, 2011 entries:7:30 to 16:00.Here the clock out is before shift end time.The output is regular 8.4 + OT 3.6 hours where OT should be 7.4 hours.Only in such scenario the OT issue is arising. If we change the clock out to 16:20 or greater than shift time, the OT is calculated correctly

Please check the screenshot below for reference.

GOT Input

GOT Process Log

GOT Output

PLease advise how to proceed to resolve this issue.

Regards,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Can you log a new thread for this since this one is already closed?

Regards,

Vivek

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

Thank you.The issue is resolved.

Regards,

Haritha.

Former Member
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Hi,

Please check the screen shot for reference.

  • 2011 Input is 7:30 to 16:40 where shift is from 7:30 to 16:20 & DWS post OT tolerance is 29 mins from 16:20 to 16:49.

Input for DPTOL with TIMTP after P2011 in provide time data.

Output of DPTOL with TIMTP after P2011

Input for DPTOL without TIMTP after P2011

Output of DPTOL without TIMTP after P2011

Thanks,

Haritha

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

While testing, I observed that the TIMTP after P2011 is creating a problem for Pre OT condition.There is 1 hour tolerance defined for pre OT & 30 mins Tolerance defined for Post OT in DWS.Due to TIMTP after 2011, the time pair is split on working day also.

  • DPTOL : Process the tolerances & it will consider the pair within planned time.
  • But due to TIMTP, the time pair is already split for DPTOL input, hence it is not considering the tolerance & giving OT during tolerance time.

Please suggest solution for PH without effecting the OT tolerances on regular days.

Regards,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

You can write an IF ELSE statement in schema and write a PCR that if the condition of PH is fulfilled, then process function TIMTP. If the day is not a PH, then process normally.

Using this approach, you can resolve this issue.

Regards,
Vivek

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

Thank you for clarifying all my doubts & thank you for the resolution.

Regards,

Haritha.

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

Implemented the steps as per your suggestion.OT is working fine but now the issue is with regular pair i.e default pair generated by system.It is not assigning processing type S for last two pairs in PBRKS & in regular hours with processing type S, the hours from 16 to 16:33 are not added as it is giving a split after DEFTP from 16 to 16:33 for default pair & not asigning any processing type.

Please check the screen shots below.

PBRKS Output

DEFTP

GOT

DZL

ZML

Regards,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

The system is behaving correctly.

You have processing type S assigned for initial pairs and the remaining ones are left blank because the threshold of 12 hours defined in TGMAX has reached. Add the hours of time pairs with S and you will find that they add up to 12 hours. Function DEFTP converts time pairs of processing type A and P to S upto a max of 12 hours defined in constant TGMAX.

Regarding overtime, please understand that overtime gets calculated on the basis of time pairs with pair type 1 (IT2011) and pair type 3 (IT2002). The time pair with pair type 2 is getting generated by system because the employee is not supposed to work on this day. Time pair with pair type 2 doesn't contribute to overtime.

If this time pair was not generated by system and the employee didn't come to work and there was no clock in/out data, absence record and attendance record, then there would have been no record in Table TIP and that would have resulted in time evaluation error.

I hope this resolves your query.

Regards,

Vivek Barnwal

Former Member
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HI vivek,

Please check the PCR processing log & PCR

jagan_gunja
Active Contributor
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Try just checking for proc type (i.e., no pair type check).

Where have been t/t's 2501 & 2502 accumulated?  In the PCR ZPH2, just for testing - add op'n to print these. along with comparing with them

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

You have created the PCR incorrectly. The parameter under OUTTPVTYPE should be S and not U.

Please check the screenshot I sent and make changes accordingly.

Let me know if this fixes your issue or not.

Regards,

Vivek

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

I mentioned in the previous mails that if we give 'S' the time identifier is not assigned. So I tried changing it to 'U' its working.Only issue is with the new split of 10 mins 11:43 to 11:53 which is happening after DEFTP.

However the final output i.e total OT hours are corect.

Regards,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

Please do the following:

  • Remove any parameters for function PBRKS.
  • Keep the processing type as S for OUTWPVTYPE.
  • Later on, first change the processing type from S to U and then change time identifier to 05. Hence, the order will change to FILLPVU and then FILLPT05.

Kindly let me know how this works out.


Regards,

Vivek

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

If I remove OWTI feature in PBRKS, it is not splitting the break.

PBRKS

DEFTP

ZPH2 PCR Output

OT It is not changing the time identifier for break time

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

Can you share the PCR ZPH2 that you wrote and also the PCR processing log?

Regards,

Vivek

jagan_gunja
Active Contributor
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May I suggest

1, Expanded schema

1.1)In SA38 execute with pgm RPDASC00.  Expand the TE schema fully  entering the schema name, schema type 'T', then "*" (asterisk) for all other selection input fields and press execute.

This displays the fulyy expanded schema showing all the sub schemas, functions, PCR's.

1.2)Save the output as a text file in *.TXT format.

2. TE log

2.1) Run TE with log,

2.2) For all the relevant functions and PCR's, save input, processing and output.

Post the files, so that others can see/analyse where the problems are.

Another suggestion is to see the example in the attached file - breaks processing part of the TM04 schema customized as ZM04.

Former Member
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Hi Jagan,

Thank you for the suggestion.But I think there is no need of schema as I am using standard TM00.Only addition to TM00 is the PCR written for unpaid break split on PH which I attached in the discussion.

Regards,

Haritha.

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

The split is happening after DEFTP & TGMAX value is 12.I added OWTI in PBRKS.No changes in data maintenance

Regards,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Can you undo your changes related to PBRKS and check?

Do we have any value maintained for DWS for maximum hours in Table V_T550A?

Regards,
Vivek

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

Got the result by changing the processing type to 'U' from 'S' in second PCR.

Thank you so much.But I still have a doubt.Why is it giving a 10 mins (11:43 to 11:53) split after break.

Thanks,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

Can you check the data you have maintained?

As per the earlier screenshots, I don't see this 10 min split which you are talking about.

Can you check which PCR is making this split?

Regards,

Vivek Barnwal

vianshu
Active Contributor
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If you have made any changes to parameters of function PBKRS, please revert those changes. I believe the split is happening because of DEFTP. Can you check and confirm?

Also, find the value of constant TGMAX in V_T511K table.

Regards,

Vivek

Former Member
0 Kudos

HI Vivek,

I have tried this method but still see the same output & I think it is because the time ID of pair type 1 with processing type U is changing to 02.We have written a rule based on time ID 05 which is changed to 02.

Please check the screen shot below.

PBRKS Input TIP

PBRKS OUTPUT TIP:Processing type Highlighted

DEFTP

2nd PCR Z234 (ZPH2) Processing of pair type1 unpaid break processing

Regards,

Haritha.

Former Member
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Hi,

Can anyone help with PCR for this scenario.

Regards,

Haritha.

Former Member
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Hi Venkatesh,

Thank you for the inputs.

Weekly of is defined with break & if we book OT on weekly off its giving the right output with start & end time subtracting the scheduled break.

The concern is about Public Holiday OT.

Let me explain the system behaviour.

  • As the PH is on working day, system is automatically generating a planned pair as per DWS,with pair type 2 & identifier 02.
  • When we book clockin/out on PH, its generating another entry with start & end time with pair type 1 & identifier 01 which is later converted to OT without break time.
  • If we look at GWT, it is generating both regular & OT hours which is not the right output.
  • As per requirement, when we book clockin/out, it should overwrite the planned pair which is generated by default so that OT is calculated with break & it will not calculate any regular hours.

Regards,

Haritha.

venkateshorusu
Active Contributor
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Haritha,

Even though you are booking attendance for Holiday system does not consider break schedule it gives you the result as OT hours including break time since i have suggested use the logic start time and end time in V_T510S exclude the break by checking the holiday class.

Another thing you have booked an absence for the same day check the 2001 as well i hope not required that record.

Regards

Venkatesh

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

Please check the screen shots.

TIP entry after inserting TIMTP below P2011 function

TIP after actual TIMTP in TM00 schema

TIP after DEFTP:

TIP after GOT

Hope these will help you understand the issue.

Regards,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Hi Haritha,

These are not duplicate entries. System is behaving correctly.

One set of entries (pair type 1) are due to IT2011 records and another set of entry (pair type 2) gets generated by PCR TE20 using operation GENTG in case of public holiday.

Kindly go through the below document to get an understanding of function TIMTP.

Please execute step 2 and step 3 of the solution where you can replace the processing type P with U for the break timings. This will help you to resolve this issue.

Let me know if you get stuck anywhere.

Regards,

Vivek Barnwal

jagan_gunja
Active Contributor
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Check if your TE schema has the function PBRKS.  Try the different options e.g., ALL, OWTI.  This will separate break times and generate TIP entries with break hrs and the rest as worked hrs (for which there could be more than one entry depending on the input TIP entry.

Also a PCR with operation TMBRE may be required.

Former Member
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Dear Jagan,

I am afraid TMBRE won't help in Haritha's case because I am facing same problem.

PBRKS+TMBRE won't loop into the time types with time ID05 directly. And if there are multiple planned unpaid breaks on same day, it may not convenient to let system calculating employee's late coming and early going.

Feel free to advise.

Best Regards,

Alina

Former Member
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Hi Venkatesh,

Here the issue is not only the OT Hours.Job booking from PP module is linked to the shift pattern.System should automatically subtract the break time though employee booked any job during fixed break time.

The second option that you gave will work for calculating OT hours but the TIP entried will not be split as per schedule right.

venkateshorusu
Active Contributor
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I did not know how exactly job booking functionality is happening in system so i can not comment on that, but only thing i can say you wanted to capture the TIP entries excluding break identify those break timings and exclude it in V_T510S accordingly system captures the mentioned start and end time only.

The solution and approach varies with existing system setup accordingly we should work.

Regards

Venkatesh

Former Member
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Hi Shruthi,

I have assigned different processing types for Planned hours and break.System is generating a default planned pair with break on PH. when we give clock in/out in 2011 with approved OT, it is creating a new pair with start and end time and not splitting the time with break.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

This can be done using PCRs and time types.

You will need to split the time pairs to flag the break timings and assign them processing type K.

Regards,

Vivek Barnwal

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi Vivek,

Could you please elaborate it.

Thanks

venkateshorusu
Active Contributor
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Why do not you try option V_T510S, Where you can capture the number of OT hours on a particular day with particular timings.

Regards

Venkatesh

Former Member
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Hi Venkatesh,

I am doing it through T510S. T510S can capture the start and end time but not break time. The requirement is scheduled unpaid break hours should be subtracted & the remaining hours should be OT.

ShrutiJoshi
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha

If you are generating the overtime wage type through T510S then it makes the work more simpler. The reason that you have this problem would be because may be you havent separated the time pairs for your break and planned working hours by different processing types. Once you have different processing types, lets say K for break and S for planned hours, then in the T510S rule, you can specify only S under the valid processing types section for this wage type generation. Please refer to the document to understand the relevance of this section.

venkateshorusu
Active Contributor
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Haritha,

Let assume the weekly off planned working hours are "0" no start time and end time but we wanted to know the over time hours excluding break i.e let assume that 09:00 17:00, 8 hours employee is worked, what is the break time.? either it must be  "X "minutes(15) in above case 8 hours he has worked break is 15 minutes so accordingly we will subtract 15 minutes.

Another case it is fixed 15 minutes but with start and end time 13.00 - 13:15 in this case what we will do is capture the number of over time hours between 09:00 - 13:00 and 13:16 - 17:00 by writing rule with sequence numbers i.e we excluded the break by mentioning start and end time in V_T510S.

Regards

Venkatesh

vianshu
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha,

Below are the steps to be executed.

  1. Introduce function TIMTP in schema after function P2011. This will split your IT2011 records in TIP and show the breaks.
  2. Write a custom PCR to read the break start time and break end time and pass it to 2 time types. You need to use operation OUTTP to determine the time pair with time id 05 and processing type K and then use operation HRS=PBEG and HRS=PEND to read the timings and pass them to 2 time types. Place this PCR after this TIMTP function and process it using function RTIP.
  3. After the function PBKRS, you need to introduce one more PCR. In this PCR, you need to find time pair with pair type 1 and with the same start time and end time as in the time types. For this particular time pair, you change the time id to 05 and processing type to K.

Or you can solve your requirement by simply introducing function TIMTP after P2011 function in your positive time schema. Even this should work.

But if you want your records in TIP table to be perfect, then execute steps 2 and 3.

Let me know how it goes. I hope this resolves your issue.

Regards,

Vivek

Former Member
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Hi Vivek,

Thank you for the solution.

I tried inserting TIMTP after 2011 but it is duplicating the TIP entries & after DEFTP it is converting the break also into OT.Moreover its giving both regular & OT hours.

Have to try writing a custom PCR.

Thanks,

Haritha.

vianshu
Active Contributor
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What do you mean by duplicating the TIP entries?

Can you share the screenshot? And yes, please write the PCR to flag the break times with processing type K. That will resolve your issue.

Let me know if you need any clarification on the PCR.


Regards,

Vivek

venkateshorusu
Active Contributor
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As far i know, Even though you added function TIMTP system does not consider break timings until and unless we define break schedule for particular day usually what happens we will not define break schedule for weekly off's since TIMTP does not split TIP entries it simply stores it as over time.

the way to get split's are 1) as suggested earlier maintain start and end time exclude break hours.

2)Define a break schedule for weekly off's and assign it to weekly off daily work schedule and check

3)Else subtract the number of minutes(fixed break) from OT hours.




For further reference go through documentation of TIMTP and DEFTP it gives you an idea.


















Regards

Venkatesh

ShrutiJoshi
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha

Function GOT compares the time pairs in table TIP with the overtime approvals for the current day. The "approved" times are made available for processing in the specified personnel calculation rule, where they can be flagged as overtime pairs.

So you need to check the PCR which is handling the time pairs. There is a possibility that your PCR does not handle the comparison of processing types for break and overtime and thus the entire pair is marked as overtime.

You can use the operation COMOT to compare the processing types for overtime and break and set the prevailing processing type as that of the break whenever these two overlap.

Former Member
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Hi Shruthi,

Thank you for the response.I am using the standard Schema TM00.

However will check the function COMOT also.

Thanks

Haritha

ShrutiJoshi
Active Contributor
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Hi Haritha

If you are using standard schema then you need to check how the PCR TO20 is being processed. When you execute time evaluation, you can check the logs to see the output processing types of your time pairs and how are they being processed by this PCR. I hope you have separate processing types for your break and planned working time.