Old but needed: Justification on moderator's right to remove content

[nitin_jinagal]

Hello Moderators,

Yes. This has been discussed several times before. And I never found a reason. I'm just very confused about what to post in a blog and what not!!!!

Where to post and where not!!

I recently posted a blog in Career center and this was removed with following message.

If the removed blog is not relevant, would Mr tell me what is relevant? What do he has to say about several other blogs already posted there.

This is very very frustrating. Seems that this moderator is having some revenge kinda feeling just because I pointed him out in discussion. I asked few questions directly, is that the reason? That is why you were silent there.

All you moderators out there, Would you bother to tell me what is a correct blog content? What is a correct space??

This blog is about managing your time to improve your skills so that one can perform better in life and career. You find it irrelevant . Give me a break !!

And please, do not tell me that I can also 'Report' other irrelevant blogs because you don't have whole day to review all the content. But this moderator didn't do any delay in removing my content without giving a significant reason. Or are you just misusing your power Mr.

Nitin

[former_member184657 · Accepted solution]

Nitin,

Yes you are right, this topic of "Why my content has been deleted" is the second most FAQ after "Where my points have gone" in SCN? And quite surprisingly they go hand-in-hand. The later question usually gets asked first and then the former

To know what is a relevant blog and what is not, try to harp on the numerous blogs written in this space written during the pre-moderated-blog era.

No, this is not a revenge for your "pointing-out". I did not reply to those messages because I was extremely busy and by the time I was less tied-down, most of the things I had to say was already said by the other Moderators and members. And one more thing, I dont really have to justify my reasons for reporting your (QM Space) blog to you.

The correct space for your current blog is your personal blog space as already mentioned. I found your blog irrelevant as it talks about (or rather defines) Private Time and Public Time and what you must and mustn't do in this time. You cannot simply add weightage to your content by adding names of public personalities. For starters, you never really know for sure what they do in their personal life. And it is not necessarily a "certified" way of doing things.

In my honest opinion, there are couple of really good points you mentioned in the blog -

 - Basically, its not a rocket science to understand about the timings.
- If you have reached this part of the blog, you would understand that I have explained nothing new.

And that's one of the reasons why your blog has been rejected. There is nothing new to offer in your content. Managing one's personal and public time is something everybody does. It is well known to everyone that maintaining a perfect balance between public and private life is key to one's success and happiness.

Even if you really wanted to help others in their career, you should have mentioned in the blog what they should have done. Instead you just mentioned :

 - It all depends on you. Spare time to better your skills. When you have your private time, explore your horizon, expand it. Look for the ways around to enhance your career. Don't just sit and let it go.

If its for the members to figure it out or it depends on them what to do with their free time, then what is the idea behind your whole blog? You were supposed to give a solution or guidance in your blog, but instead you put the ball back in the readers court to figure it out. This makes your blog fall flat on its nose.

Coming to your point about other "irrelevant" blogs in the Career Center forum, let me inform you that since the last one month when I started actively moderating the Career Center forums again (after a long gap) I have deleted as many as 53 Blogs and Documents in the Career Center Space. And everytime I rejected a member's blog or document, I've DM'ed the author and precisely given them the reason why their blogs have been deleted. I know there are still LOT of other irrelevant blogs and documents which deserve to be deleted, but not done so. This is because I'm following the guidelines set by Global Moderators on what can stay and what cannot...

Among the many things a Moderator does, he/she should also monitor the behaviour and mindset of community members. Is the member making an honest attempt at presenting some valuable information (although with poor communication skills) or simply running behind points and badges (using excellent communication skills). I figured you were in the later category as there was simply no weight in your blog. But I didn't make that assumption simply by reading this one blog. Your New Year Resolution blog in the QM space was in simple terms paraphrasing of the RoE of this community. This shows you have a tendency to earn some free brownie points with little effort.

Have I answered all your questions?

pk

[nitin_jinagal · Accepted solution]

Kishan,

I don't need to know what you do all the time. And if that's something you are doing, that's great because I don't want noisy stuff here either. Shall I give you a suggestion, As a member to a moderator, if this was about wrong space, please mention that in the direct message you guys send to author.

Of course, I'm not expecting another debate here over how should a moderator do his job so please if you don't like this suggestion, simply ignore!!

I came back to this discussion after seeing your response only. I don't want to take this discussion longer but again, I came across this assumption thing. I would agree to most of your content except this,

This shows you have a tendency to earn some free brownie points with little effort.

Have I answered all your questions?

You don't know me. So you are not at all authorized to blame me for point hunting. Please don't do that to anyone you don't even know.

And to answer this blame, I have something to tell you.

• Recently, I along with few other members had a conference with Moshe about the betterment of SCN. Removing points from Coffee corner and other unnecessary stuff was the first point I proposed.
• Please refer this,

Now don't again assume that I was doing this for some points. I don't know this guy Manish. This was in context of keeping the forum clean only. OP simply marked his answer helpful and closed it by saying closed. I then suggested him to do this way & he did that.

Of course many would assume that I asked OP to close it specifically or pressurized him & this favored Manish, and indirectly it was asking for points.

What intention did I actually had behind? Figure it out buddy before blaming anyone!!

And I'm sorry I targeted you directly but after seeing all the responses, I accepted my mistake in response to Matthew.

Nitin

[former_member184657 · Accepted solution]

Nitin,

I'm glad we are at point where we can find closure to this discussion.

In my defense I would like to add one last point. I did not accuse you of "point-hunting". I merely stated: Your posts suggests you have a tendency to earn some free brownie points. This is definitely not the same as saying, you are always indulging in point-hunting.

Get it?

pk

[nitin_jinagal · Accepted solution]

Kishan,

Such issues are cleared only when they are clearly stated with actual meaning. I have seen people jumping out in a discussion by picking a single statement or word.

This was necessary. I'm glad too you explained that.

ntn

[former_member182354]

Hi Nitin,

            By reading your question discussion it makes an impression that you clearly are not happy with moderator removing your content. What I think is you would not have had the same impression if you have not seen other irrelevant posts in CC.

            Moderators might be looking at removing them also in the meantime. I am not a very regular user of SCN but bet me I find some irrelevant discussions,blogs etc every single time I login.

            Request to the moderators is the sooner you clean up the all the space's it would be beneficial to all. I know its easier said than done

            Also I did not find anywhere what is a valid post or blog and what is not. Right now I think this is purely on moderators discretion. Getting this guideline set up is also a challenging task.

            RoE talks about removal of content but does not specify what is the criteria being used.

Raghav          

[matt]

Rather than have a whole raft of detailed rules, it is indeed at moderator discretion. Most content (excluding those that aren't seen by moderators) are valid, so I really don't see a huge problem here.

[nitin_jinagal]

Hi Raghav,

Also I did not find anywhere what is a valid post or blog and what is not. Right now I think this is purely on moderators discretion. Getting this guideline set up is also a challenging task.

            RoE talks about removal of content but does not specify what is the criteria being used.         

I'm happy someone identified this & said that. You know what, I'm rather confused (not an issue of happiness) about the rejection.

In both the cases, I asked this question but nobody responded ever. Instead I was suggested to use conscience, self discretion etc etc. Well the day I get to know about correct blog content & correct space, I'll blog again. Till then, I don't need to and shouldn't as well.

Good to see you here

ntn

[former_member182354]

Yes I guess, the bad ones hanging there are still not yet seen by moderators.

Thanks Matthew.

[former_member182354]

Hi Nitin,

            Cheer up!! everyone has a bad day...any objections take it one-to-one with the moderator and things should be ok.

Raghav

[nitin_jinagal]

It got over after one-to-one with the moderator only

ntn

[matt]

I find your accusations of a moderator singling you out and victimising you highly offensive. You are attributing scurrilous motives to someone you've never met. Moderators work for the good of the site. If that means your work gets rejected, then tough, frankly. You're only concerned with your own good. The moderators are concerned about the good of the site - otherwise we wouldn't spend unpaid hours trying to keep the place tidy.

Btw - fact of life. If you draw moderation attention to yourself by your activity, you're more likely to be closely monitored. If you post attacks on an individual, as you have done in this discussion, then you are likely to loose an benefit of the doubt on marginal cases. Conversely, if you are courteous, helpful, respectful, understanding and polite, then you are likely to be be given the benefit of the doubt.

I suggest you adopt the latter approach. It will serve you well in life.

I liked your blog. I did see it as marginal. Why not post it in your own space? Alternatively, there are many blog sites outside of SCN you can use, if you don't like the way this place is run.

[nitin_jinagal]

If you draw moderation attention to yourself by your activity, you're more likely to be closely monitored. If you post attacks on an individual, as you have done in this discussion, then you are likely to loose an benefit of the doubt on marginal cases. Conversely, if you are courteous, helpful, respectful, understanding and polite, then you are likely to be be given the benefit of the doubt.

I suggest you adopt the latter approach. It will serve you well in life.

Sir,

If I were to draw attention of moderators, I would have done this long ago. I have several times sent abuse reports but did not cry over if few of them are rejected, never asked for any justification, never pointed out anyone. Instead, whenever I received any direct message from my moderator, I have followed that. If found something similar while accessing it through cell phone, I myself had asked my moderator to remove my content (Because I wasn't able to do same using the device).

So I don't think I lie in the earlier category you mentioned. Ask my moderator !!

In this particular, I raised my voice because I sensed something wrong. Something I wasn't able to understand. Is asking about the things wrong? I guess not!!

If you suggest me to adopt the later stated approach because you think I do not, then I'm sorry Sir, you don't know me.

I'm not afraid of being closely monitored. Please do that because I know what I'm doing here and I stick by rules and follow the guidance by moderators.

Yes, I did not follow the rules in this particular discussion. Yes, pointing out someone directly or indirectly is wrong and unprofessional. I accept that. But I did that. Did anyone give a single thought behind my intention? No.

Not everyone and every time challenges the system politely. I have never done this before this way. No one can find a single similar content. I was disappointed this time. That's it!

Thank you for your guidance. I abide by that. But do not assume

ntn

[matt]

In the first paragraph, my statement is in the conditional and the "you" is general. Asking about things certainly isn't wrong. And you should expect a response.

What is wrong, and what I find highly offensive (and where the "you" is specifically your good self), is making libelous accusations, based on your assumption of Kishan's motivation. That was most definitely not polite, courteous, helpful nor respectful. If you are actually all these four things in your first posting you failed to show it.

[nitin_jinagal]

I do agree and that is why I made this statement,

"Yes, I did not follow the rules in this particular discussion. Yes, pointing out someone directly or indirectly is wrong and unprofessional. I accept that"

I don't know if I fall in that category and I deliberately failed to show it and that is why I again stated,

"Not everyone and every time challenges the system politely. I have never done this before this way. No one can find a single similar content. I was disappointed this time. That's it!"

I hope you understand why I did that and under what reasons. If I were holding any personal clash with him, I would had done that again. Instead, I choose other path and responded him in most suitable way.

Human makes mistakes, but accepting them is what a man do!!

Isn't it?

Regards,

Nitin

[matt]

Good. I'm glad you understand.

[nitin_jinagal]

I didn't had a choice

ntn

[Steffi_Warnecke]

Hello Nitin,

have you thought about the possibility, that this discussion was rated low, because you are not only ranting, but also attacking a person and that on a pretty personal level? And you start to sound paranoid.

Maybe you need to take 5 to 10 deep breath, before you continue here.

BTW: Your personal blog is always open for exactly this kind of blog. That is the place you can share your thoughts on topics, that don't fit in any of the normal SCN spaces. I would have posted the blog there to begin with.

Regards,

Steffi.

[nitin_jinagal]

Thank You for you kind words

But I've never been paranoid by anything and nothing makes me loose my cool. There is a difference between loosing out and raising the voice.

I would follow the Yoga steps whenever I loose it, but here I'm just asking something. And I'm pretty straight forward person. I say what I feel to say, may be I sounded bit harsh but that's again what I felt. Anyways I have decided what I need to do now.

Thanks again for your kind concern

ntn

[JL23]

I actually agree with Kishan's decision, this blog has nothing to do with career and SCN. And I am glad we have an active moderator in the career space now, as this space was going to be misused to launch the blogs that were earlier posted in the coffee corner.

[nitin_jinagal]

I would like you to explain then about blog posting in SCN. In the blog rules content, its purpose says

"Blogs are where you express your point of view or share your thoughts on something.  It's your soap box to stand on if you want to bring something to the attention of  other community members or just share with them your ideas or experiences"

So what is this for? If I can't share my point of view, my thoughts, my ideas on something, I cannot bring something to community attention then I'm sorry, there is no use of defining such words.

Active moderator isn't that active actually. There are still plenty of irrelevant content there.

[JL23]

Where did you read the rules? in SCN. So do you really need a rule that explicitly says, "you are in SCN, please only post SCN related stuff". Isn't that already self-explaining? It can be seen everywhere in the screen that you are here in SCN and not in Facebook.

Please don't fingerpoint to other and old stuff, it is the responsibility of all of us to keep our house clean, not just the moderators. Why don't you click abuse for this irrelevant stuff if you see it?

I am not sure if you can imagine what work the moderators do, how much of their time they spend to keep the forums clean.  I am only for 90 minutes now, and have gone through about 30 discussions in my communications. I am going to drive to my workplace now. When I arrive there, I will find again 30 discussions and blog in my communications stream.

This all needs to be read, abuse reports need to be taken care off.

And as you gave the best example yourself here, the people do not accept a one-line comment, hence I have to spend more time to get all thoughts into 2,5 lines (more space is not there) or need to write an extra direct message.

And if you read the rules, then you know that there are many more rules that have to be monitored and taken care. where guidance has to be given, where stuff has to be moved, blogs and documents need to be checked for plagiarism (still there)

Now I spend about 20 minutes with this reply.

How many 20 minutes spare time does a moderator have beside his normal work to explain his justification during a day?

[nitin_jinagal]

Please do not point out at me Sir.

I'm not asking to re-define the rules. Not just moderator, but every single member on SCN is devoting his time. There is no need to define anything explicitly, but surely need to understand what is already defined. That's what I do.

Where did you read the rules? in SCN. So do you really need a rule that explicitly says, "you are in SCN, please only post SCN related stuff". Isn't that already self-explaining? It can be seen everywhere in the screen that you are here in SCN and not in Facebook.

About that,

I have seen people posting about their families, hobbies, and lot other stuff which neither relates to SAP nor SCN. But yes, that is fine because some Moderator has initiated it. Its not about that blog only. Its matter of what's right and what's wrong. Or I should just hit 'Abuse report' ?

If you can spare time anytime, please go through my other two blog's (titled with SCN) and you'll see how much I'm devoted to better the things on SCN.

I believed SCN is community for all and now I strongly believe that whatever is mentioned is truly meaningful.

I started with QM and I'll continue with QM & SAP stuff only. Even I don't have time to look after everything. Let the moderator object my content, report my other blogs too. That wouldn't take anything away.

I'm here for a purpose and would continue to serve for that. Thanks for giving me those 20 minutes. Won't bother you again. I really appreciate.

And for the sake of community, please send my request to concerned moderator to remove this whole discussion also so that it doesn't leave any negative impression on a newbie.

Thanks to you all for giving your valuable time and views!!

Regards,

Nitin

[JL23]

All these family blogs caused the shut-down of blogs in the coffee corner, among other unwanted content.

But the reason was not the content about the family, the reason was that the blog feature was used to make a lot of points.

Still it would be possible to post such stories as discussions in the coffee corner or as personal blog, but somehow without the 10 points nobody seems to be interested to consider it.

Can nobody imagine that unwanted behavior will lead to changes?

restricting personal documents was the first thing after the spam attack,

restricting blogs in the coffee corner was one of the next measures after massive points gaming with plagiarized and blogs that have nothing to do with SCN.

What is next?

Last week we had this discussion:

Will this be possible in future?

What about the several hundred "thank you" as comments for blogs, where many are just given to get 2 points from the author. Anybody thinks this is unseen by the responsibles and can continue forever?

Comments are meant for something different than "thank you" and "you rock"

Unfortunately these changes are always affecting us all while they are caused only by a minority. We should stop this minority before the fun is over.

[former_member182421]

You rock.

I just disagree in the "thank you" part, I think is allways nice to see somebody like the content of your blog, even if he/she doesn't have anything to add or discuss, of course if there's someone who is claiming himself or herself as "mr/mrs thank you man" and he/she mission in life is just to say thanks for everything, that would be a litle suspiscious, but I would like to think this behaviour is just performed by a small number of users in SCN.

[JL23]

I would like to see likes and ratings, instead of "thank you" without like and rating.

[former_member182421]

I agree on that

[Former Member]

Hello,

My say on this that we are deviating from the original issue. This discussion is not about point system so that part should not be discussed. I would like to bring one thing into your attention that apart from the BIF stuff, Run with Purpose Challenge is slowly growing in the space.  Why is this needed when every one has an option to say it through BIF?

I have read couple of RPC and I don't find them suitable for Career center forum as well. They appear completely personal stuff so again, should be posted to personal space only. Moreover, they shouldn't be encouraged. Why another noisy stuff in the making ?

~KJ~

[Jelena]

Jürgen L wrote:

I actually agree with Kishan's decision, this blog has nothing to do with career and SCN. And I am glad we have an active moderator in the career space now, as this space was going to be misused to launch the blogs that were earlier posted in the coffee corner.

I agree as well and would've reported it if I saw it. There are many other web sites where everyone can share whatever they wish. On SCN we need to think about the benefit to the whole community and keep the content relevant, useful and organized. No need to take such rejection personally.

[Former Member]

It seems to me that someone's holding big grudge against you. Rating this discussion as one star is nowhere logical because it is just a discussion.

We few people discussing this and someone again rated your blog with one star.

I cant stop laughing

KJ

[nitin_jinagal]

ROFL. Thank you for this observation

ntn

[Former Member]

Hello Nitin,

I checked your blog yesterday i liked it but and sorry to say that was not related to "Career".. I didn't find any single context where people can take some tips how they can improve in the career.. Your blog was based on a question, what you do in private time/ public time with some example, if you add some tips saying, "" You should do this thing to improve yourself ...."" that can we helpful to people...

If you want to see what should be there in 'Career Space' then open the following link.. and read all the blog ..

http://scn.sap.com/community/career-center

[nitin_jinagal]

I don't agree. Nobody tells you what you need to do to improve your skills. One can only guide. There are no tips, no shortcuts. Even a trainer can give you logic, guide you. Working on them depends on the individual.

And leave this aside, if this was not related to CC, then why several blogs are posted there which are not relevant at all.

ntn

[nitin_jinagal]

And i don't want to point out other's work so just cannot directly name such blogs. Else, you know yourself, there are plenty of irrelevant blogs!!

ntn

[Former Member]

Yeah i know, Please be kind of press report abuse, if you don't thing its not relevant and let the Moderators decide..

[Former Member]

When you say this,

 I didn't find any single context where people can take some tips how they can improve in the career.. Your blog was based on a question, what you do in private time/ public time 

I read that blog again. If you go through it carefully, you'd find "what is really important for your growth". It doesn't say about career, office, family or anything directly, infact for everything in a way. That relates to Career

I am sorry dear but please read it again

KJ

[midhun_vp]

Can you paste your blog content here to check what's wrong with it if it's not too big

[nitin_jinagal]

Please read the last phrase of my query.

What you said is right, but is that a solution ??? I start reporting others because mine was rejected. That's insane. That's moderator's work to do without any discrimination.

I need to know ground reality. This is not first time. Same moderator has tried this before and succeeded this time because it was his space.

[nitin_jinagal]

Here it is

[jpfriends079]

Hi ntn

There is no need to point them out here or you don't have to name them, simply report abuse the content with suitable comments. Which can justify your stand on the report abuse.

And I believe would not have taken any action until it was report abuse. Mind you he has regular job, apart being voluntarily working as Moderator.

Best Wishes, JP

[Former Member]

Yeah, As we are part of SCN family, its our responsibility also to keep it clean and perfect, so we can also report content and Mods can check it..

[nitin_jinagal]

May be. But I don't think so.

And How do I report such messages? Is there any grievance cell?

If someone reported that, I believe that someone is following me so badly that this discussion and personal space is being rated 1 star. I'm amazed I'm bothering someone so much

ntn

[Former Member]

Done.. Still same views.

I am Going GYM everyday and using SCN everyday.. So i should pick the 'Brad Pitt's ' context ???

I am not saying there is some problem with blog, blog was perfect but wasn't relevant to career space...

[nitin_jinagal]

That is something to understand the concept. Not to follow

[jpfriends079]

someone is following me

Possible! Or possibly the space

Check this

[nitin_jinagal]

First possible is correct after seeing someone reaching out my fresh posting so quickly. I didn't share it, I didn't tag it. And this member found it as soon as I gave a link here.

I'm truly amazed. I have got a fan indeed!!

[jpfriends079]

Frankly, I don't follow SCN Support space. But, I end up replying in your discussion.

Anyway, you should be happy.

I'm truly amazed. I have got a fan indeed!!

Thanks

[Former Member]

Oops! Is it about that time stuff which was posted yesterday? I cannot find it now.

It was very nice content and so many people liked it. I too don't understand why it has been removed.

Going by the message you pasted, I don't find it logical that looking after your skills and managing them is not relevant to Career, SCN or anywhere else.

I am not agreeing to this.

KJ

[nitin_jinagal]

Thanks for sharing your views. Yes, I also don't agree to that and that's why I started this discussion. There are certain rules and everybody is bound to follow them .Even moderators' and they do it except for few

I posted it to my personal space now. It would be good to see if he finds it inappropriate for that too and raise objection

ntn