Developing in SAPUI5 takes a lot longer than in ABAP

[Former Member]

Hi guys, so SAPUI5 is a huge topic at the moment and I played around with it for a bit, but there is one thing that makes me sceptical about the future of SAPUI5: the duration of developing new applications. At this point, I would say you need about 10 times longer to develop a SAPUI5 application as you would with ABAP or WDA. I think the main reason for this is the missing integration of the SAP Dictionary.

Let's take the programming of a value help (F4 help) for example. In ABAP, you just need to use a DDIC type and the rest is done automatically. In SAPUI5, you need to register and catch the on-click event of the ValueHelpField, send a request to the backend, build a table with the values, return this table to the frontend, create a window with a table and two buttons, bind the information to the table, catch the button click events and return the selected value to the ValueHelpField. Now image doing this for a selection screen with 30+ fields, parameters and select options. That's insane.

So, Am I missing the point here? Is there an easier way to implement a value help in SAPUI5? Or is SAPUI5 just not ready to be used in everyday business? Can we expect a better framework with more backend integration?

What's your opinion on this problem?

[former_member182294 · Accepted solution]

Hi Klaus,

Agreeing with you that UI5 development takes longer than WDJ/WDA or general ABAP development. There is no shortcut way as of now, may be something SAP is planning to release like a WD framework with UI5 rendering. But you can try third party software called Neptune which provides the framework.

And also you can view this blog which gives a generic control for Value Help. So you can reuse this like any other control with simple configurations.

Thanks

Abhilash

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Thanks, your Blog is very useful indeed.

I already tried out the Neptune tools and they are quite awesome, but I'm still hoping for license-free tools from SAP, like the WDA framework.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Klaus,

I work at Neptune Software. I just wanted to add that our software is free for developers and in dev/test systems. An SAP customer only needs license for productive use, which is by the way very affordable.

[former_member182638]

Hi Klaus,

My 2 cents on this question.... Yes the tooling in the UI5 space is still immature and evolving, as it is generally in the HTML5 industry.  But these days I ask myself this ... if I have to decide between what is easier for the developer, versus what is easier for the user, then I will generally side with the user.  UI5 is a much preferable path to providing user interfaces that will delight users - and don't forget, you get mult-platform capability with it (phones, tablets, desktops).  You don't get that with WDA.

If the productivity difference is 10 times longer with SAPUI5 then if you had the same level of experience with SAPUI5 as with WDA, the difference might not be so large.  And in time as SAP releases better tooling, the difference will be reduced further.  That said, you need to be clear about what scenario you are delivering to end-users.  If it is a user interface for a couple of professional administrators, then perhaps you don't need to go to the trouble to create a nice HTML5 user interface ... whereas if it is a highly used casual user interface, I would argue the extra investment is justified - in fact, that is why in the past some companies have justified going to the expense of creating their own native apps.

But getting back to my first point ... we should put users first.  I would choose what is best for the user above what is easiest for the developer.  Otherwise the lines of business will one day choose another product instead of SAP.

Just my opinion.

John

[former_member182294]

Hi John,

Absolutely correct. It's all about User Experience vs developer friendly tools. Obviously User Experience comes first. And also UI5 is future investment ready for clients. There are some pains, but its worth handling it.

Thanks

Abhilash

[custodio_deoliveira]

Agree with both of you, but then comes the budget factor. Take it to the business and say "I will give you an average (at best) looking app (WDA/FPM) at  X dollars within Y weeks or an super awesome app (UI5) at just 4X dollars and 2Y weeks". I say 9 out of 10 business will take the former.

Hope it's not too far from the discussion

[GrahamRobbo]

But if you say I will give you super awesome at X dollars within Y weeks they love you. My entire SAP career is based upon doing just that. Not just since SAPUI5 - for the past 10 years.

Actually it is really based upon the fact that SAP just don't get UX. I am never short of work - and I don't think I will be for a while yet.

[koehntopp]

Hey - looks like someone's abusing the system

[Former Member]

Hi John,

i can't see why it has to be 'easier for developers' versus 'easier for the users'. I'm developing user interfaces for ages (eg. WDA for more than 4.5 years) now and think it's possible to build a user friendly ui even with sapgui or WDA. Most of the statements about the new capabilities coming with html5 regarding ux is just marketing hype. Buttons are buttons, tables are tables (c) independend from HTML5, ABAP, Java or whatever.

If you don't have a approach to focus on the user's needs you can happily build crap with HTML5 as well. Ux has nothing to do with technology. And development tools don't have to do with the technology as well.

I still recall when SAP released the ENetWeaver Developer Studio for WDJ development. I was already working with Eclipse for years then and the Netweaver Developer Studio was the worst Eclipse i'd ever seen. Only when the WDA development tool was released it was possible to deliver

decent portal applications in time and budget. I've learned the basics in two days by following the tutorials. The reason for the WDJ desaster wasn't Java or Eclipse. It was the integration into the development environment in SAP.

My points:

- UX is (mostly) not dependent from the used technology. It's a approach the developer may follow or not.

- Speed of development (and costs of the project) is not depending from the used technology. It's just a question if you have a environment which supports the developing process.

- The introduction of a new development environment has to consider the real life situation. Developers in SAP are mainly ABAP developers. They know their environment. The SE80 is NOT broken, it's still used for successful development with ABAP, WDA, BSP  by ten thousands developers every day. 

Let me tell why i was immediately convinced by the Neptune platform1.5 years ago. The guys were developing for ages and build a development platform considering all their experiences. So we got a environment that lowers the time of development with SAPUI5 roughly to 30% comparing to Eclipse (i'll take every bet).That means, I'm able to use the leaving 80% to think about ux, if i want.

I'm using the Neptune Application Designer every day. I'm training ABAP developers of our customers for about one year now. All of them are able to build highend ui's using jQuery Mobile or SAPUI5 after 2 days of training.

So far I have never heard a single argument against the platform. Building hybrid apps? Integrating the DDIC search help? Offline? JavaScript support? Integration with SMP? No problem at all. Go and try it out. It's free and easy to install. And let's talk about 'easier for developers' and ux again after.

Know what i'm asking myself since i discoverd Neptune? Why wasn't the SAP able to introduce something similar.

Kind regards

[qmacro]

Am I the only person to view this comparison as apples and pears??

[Former Member]

Why? What's so different between WDA and UI5? They are both UI technologies based on HTML and Javascript.

[former_member182294]

HTML is there from very long time. And SAP has development various other frameworks in HTML before WDA which are HTMLB, BSP, WDJ. So now its the turn for HTML5 and UI5 is a framework developed on HTML5, JQuery, Java Script, LESS and so many other open source technologies. Nevertheless to say, SAP should have some plan already in action and its just matter of time get WDA like framework for UI5 (my opinion).

Thanks

Abhilash

[Former Member]

Thanks for your response, Abhilash. I hope you're right

[Former Member]

DJ Adams, you are not alone

[GrahamRobbo]

No

[qmacro]

Perhaps I need to explain why I see the comparison as slightly skew.

Let's start with the example given - F4 help. Yes, there is more work exposing the data, wrapping it in a data model, catching the selection help event, opening a dialog etc. But why is this, one must ask oneself? It's because the two approaches are rather different.

ABAP	SAPUI5
Inside Out	Outside In
Tightly integrated with DDIC	Tightly integrated with user (see John Moy's comment)
Little control over runtime	A lot of control over runtime
Limited access to controls	Maximum access to controls
Focused on integrated data	Focused on runtime and user experience
20+ years old	2 years old
Limited tooling	Free tooling (I use vim, Sublime Text, Eclipse, depending on how I feel, for example)
Large offline footprint (if I want to develop on the plane for example)	Minimal offline footprint
(Talking of offline) very limited offline use	More chance of building offline applications

You get the picture. Note that I am not knocking ABAP, it's been a good companion for over two decades and we are still strong friends, heck, I can't do without it, even when I'm building most of my SAPUI5-based apps. And this table (tables in SCN editor, woo) is obviously biased.

So returning to my start point. Yes, it might take a little longer to get an F4 help using SAPUI5 (but it's still possible, and not beyond reason to expect design-time tooling to improve that), but how long would it take someone in ABAP to build a responsive-design app that runs on smartphone, tablet and desktop without change, pulling data in from other sources also from around the web, accessing the device's native features, etc ad nauseam?

I still see apples and pears.

dj

[Former Member]

And what a great fruit salad they make when you mix them. Sorry DJ couldn’t help it

I think Klaus concern is not which framework is the best, SAPUI5 is in another league entirely. I would also like to add performance, which in in these HANA Business Suite days might be the single most important reason to choose UI5 – Whereas WDA is sluggish with a whole lot of strange server/client requests, SAPUI5 is simply very fast (I still find myself loading enormous amounts of useless data into UI5 tables wasting working time, just grinning, and pressing the next buttons).

The issue that Klaus and loads of other ABAP developers have is the transition to Eclipse (SublimeText or whatever) and the HTML5/JavaScript world. Others like DJ, John Moy and Graham welcome this new flexible world where they have the freedom to use the UI tools of their choice by exposing the SAP Backend through NW Gateway.

You can always take the stance that Klaus (And myself) are lazy and should embrace this new world (And grow our hair long), but you might very well find yourself in a WDJ situation – ABAP is after all the core of SAP and you will not get rid of it in a foreseeable future.

Njål

[koehntopp]

It's oranges

[former_member601484]

Hi Guys,

I am just curious about that how SAPUI5 will integrate into CRM WebUI because i am a CRM Web UI consultant.

Thanks,

Ramesh Gandham

[former_member182638]

Hi Ramesh,

For a start, perhaps you should look at the new SAPUI5-based apps that SAP is releasing for CRM ...

http://scn.sap.com/community/ui-technology/blog/2013/10/10/wave-2-of-sap-fiori-apps-will-arrive-at-t...

Regards

John

[Former Member]

Hi Klaus,

Our development team took you up on the challenge of the search help and have added it in the functionality for the 2.2 release. It should be completely dynamic and you only need to chose the search help you need.

A few image teasers from early development:

[Former Member]

Looks great!

When can we expect the next release?

[Former Member]

Hi Klaus,

Glad you liked the small preview.

Release date and functionality of next release is not defined yet.

We are eagerly following what is happening with Kapsel and other initiatives from SAP. I will give you an update when we have set the date.

[Former Member]

Another thing to mention is that SAP is creating a WYSIWYG AppDesigner to speed up development time with SAPUI5.You can read about it here in this blog by

Personally I prefer the Neptune solution, but I am biased as I work for Neptune 🙂

[former_member9607]

No Pain No Gain