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External Support for SAP - Open Discussion

Former Member
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Hi All,

Lately I have discovered that there are some companys in the market that offer to change the official Maintenance Support from SAP to an external support for the SAP products (ERP, BW ..) Even they offer the same service for the database managers (Oracle, DB2 ...). Honestly I've never heard about it till now.

We can say that is like "Detach" SAP from SAP so at the moment that you go to this way you don't have maintenance support from SAP anymore and you will deal your maintenance with the other company. They should solve all your issue instead of SAP or Oracle, IBM ..

From the finance point of view you can save money with this approach because this companies offers prices obviously lower than the official vendors,

But to be honest I don't care about the finance component, I'm more courious about how to work with this model from the SAP System Administrator point of view.

Please feel free to share all the thoughts and, of course, your experiences in this kinf of models. As you can see I have not mentioned the names of these companies to avoid any commercial discussion by both sides so please try to focus in technical discussions.

Kind Regards

Jose

Accepted Solutions (1)

Accepted Solutions (1)

Former Member
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Hi Jose,

My thoughts...

There is undoubtedly some differences in the offerings of each of these external maintenance providers however I think the key to understanding the impact of moving to such a model lies with the common denominator; that is, all of these external support providers are not SAP.

By this I am not trying state the obvious but highlight the fact that many ongoing and future requirements demand SAP’s involvement should the customer wish to remain ‘SAP standard’.
For example, customers using an external provider will not be able to access the following:

- SAP Notes

- SAP Support Packs

- SAP Enhancement Packs

- version updates / new releases

It is highly likely that the external providers will have their own versions of the above, but they will not be SAP standard and it will make life very difficult/costly should the customer ever wish to move away from that provider.  It is also worthwhile pointing out that any non-SAP database will not be as anywhere near as extensive as the SAP Note database (fortunately or not, depending on your point of view).

From a day-to-day system admin perspective, the impact will depend on the offerings of the external provider.  Will hey have an EarlyWatch Alert equivalent and how does that work?  What are the backend connectivity requirements? Etc. The actual day-to-day operations, however, should remain unchanged.

Of course, for customers wishing to keep their systems as-is without a strategy to chase future technologies, I can see the use of an external provider as a worthwhile option.

Cheers,

Gregg

Former Member
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Many Thanks for your feedback.

Someone has any experience with this model?

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Hi Gregg,

The small   IT ERP service providers   will provide these services.  Since SAP partnership requires huge and continuous  investments, small companies may not able to invest.

In this scenario Customer will procure SAP with required software like 

SAP Notes

- SAP Support Packs

- SAP Enhancement Packs

- version updates / new releases

and service providers  would provide consulting, implementation, support and training services to the  customer.  They also have very  good practices  skilled resources and integration capability to provide the required services.

Most of the companies have very good onsite-offshore models to deliver cost effective solutions.

-Krishna

Former Member
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These companies can only make sure that the customer system system keeps going. They fix problems if they arise. They generally don`t provide any service that can help to improve performance, security or reduce costs. When engaged in these discussion with a customer, it is important to stress the features offered by Enterprise support and make sure the customer uses them. The services offered by ES cannot be matched by the offering of third party maintenance provider as far as I am aware

Answers (2)

Answers (2)

martin_E
Active Contributor
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I'm now working for a 3rd party support organisation that has no contact with SAP, to the extent that I am not (based on independent legal advice to the company) allowed to access support.sap.com on any company device. I think I have avoided any reference to my employers name, so that this doesn't contravene any SCN guidelines

If you cancel your SAP maintenance contract, you retain access to:

Security Notes

https://support.sap.com/securitynotes

Installation Data

https://support.sap.com/keys-systems-installations/installations.html

System Data

https://support.sap.com/keys-systems-installations/systems/view-edit.html

License Keys

https://support.sap.com/keys-systems-installations/keys.html

SSCR keys

https://support.sap.com/keys-systems-installations/keys/sscr.html

Migration keys

https://support.sap.com/keys-systems-installations/keys/migration.html

Of course, there is a distinction between going off maintenance because your release is out of date, and cancelling "official" SAP support entirely.

The former opens up a lot of business assumptions around core platform, risk assessment etc. I have worked with SAP customers who were on Max Attention or it's equivalent at the time, which made the support of 2.x and 3.x and 4.x R/3 systems relatively simple. We had more issues with hardware maintenance than software maintenance on those systems. Having said that, given the stability of those systems, you can see why customers who are happy with their only R3 system being a 4.x system don't see any point in having any connection at all with SAP.

In the case where you cancel SAP maintenance, you still own the rights to run and modify the software that you have rights to. What this means is if you are running ECC6 EHP4, you can download the EHP6 upgrade and appropriate OSS Notes, create the appropriate STACK XML for the upgrade, then cancel maintenance, then do your upgrade.

After you cancel maintenance, you retain your S number, but you lose the authorization to access notes or corrections (see exception noted below), documentation (except for SCN and help.sap.com), new software or patches, install the SAP router connection to SAP etc. This can cause problems; for example, sometimes the company I work for gets the job because the SAP system just isn't the focus of the business any more; not as important as most of us think it should be. This leads to, shall we say, an under-investment in training and staffing by the customer; I've worked with people who needed reminding that executing the next transaction in the SAP GUI needs a "/n" before it


Importantly you still have the rights to move your system (i.e. specify a new hardware key via the license keys tool) and to get SSCR Keys | SAP Support Portal to make changes to SAP objects and Z objects.


BTW, one exception regarding access to notes and corrections is that customers who have cancelled maintenance still have the right to access https://support.sap.com/securitynotes. I have to say it would have been easy for SAP to make this inaccessible, but it is genuinely good socially responsible behavior that should be applauded, as it must cost some effort (to distinguish between security and product issues) to maintain. The only caveat here is that SAP does not prvide operating system or DBMS security updates (except for HANA, of course).


What appears to be a more complicated issue is the customer who wants to run Windows 8.x and / or Office 365, but only has access to the SAP GUI 7.20 that was current when they cancelled maintenance. There are Microsoft technologies and techniques that help us get around that particular issue. More complicated examples exist as well, like another customer who had downloaded NW 7.4 software, but didn't create a STACK XML file. Theoretically, its possible they can upgrade, but we are legally / ethically unable to do things like suggest they use someone else's (on SAP maintenance) Solution Manager, I know it happens (we have many cases where SAP partners like IBM are providing first-level or hardware support to the Customer, and they will sometimes provide SAP IP that the customer isn't entitled to).

The worst case, from a technical perspective, will require that the customer "uncancels" SAP maintenance. They usually return (because of the issues mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

My final point is that I get paid based on case satisfaction surveys. I get a copy of the survey response, so does my boss, his boss, her boss, and the CEO. While the mechanics of our CRM system let me ignore or close a case any time I like, if I do so it gets reflected in the survey for that case, and in my pay packet. This breeds a close personal relationship between customers and Support Engineers; My customers have my phone number. Sometimes this gets abused, but you know what ? They may not always be right, but they will always be the customer

hth

Lluis
Active Contributor
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Hello Jose Manuel,

I was surprise with your initial post, i don't understand how a company that offer service to a SAP customer can give support avoiding SAP maintenance...

If customer read their "Exhibit for SAP Enterprise Support" or "Exhibit for SAP Standard Support", both maintenance have this on their lines:

How a third company give support to SAP customer's without a Solution Manager ? With Solution Manager, you are not available to give support to customer's than't don't have their maintenance up-to-date; and if they do their are getting in trouble that SAP Customers.

As my own experience after working in a SAP Support department where we offer SAP Support to more  than 300 customers, I can't believe how that offer "External Support".

Think about that:

- Legal changes in countries like SEPA, 340,etc.. in Spain or other countries: That type of changes/fixes/corrections delivered from SAP and need to be implemented on SAP customer's System is trough hard coding, have you think about hard coding around 20 sap notes corrections ? Without the release check ? ....

- That SAP customer's can't get SAP early Watch report from a Solution Manager, because the ewa report always check if the license maintenance are up to date, so they will not have access to ewa recommendations.

- If in SAP customer's specific country change any payroll detail that need to be added to HCM system for legal requirements, will that customers endanger their on Salary ¡

-  External support will not able to report support message to SAP to give support from experts if SAP customer found a problem in SAP system normal functionality.

- SAP-OSS will not work anymore...

- You can use Maintenance Optimizer to approve downloads or create XMLs software stacks.

- Each customer owner with a Standard or Enterprise Support Maintenance are able to download and use SAP Solution Manager; that customer's that don't have they maintenance up-to-date are not able to download or use it, and of course any external company can't offer support from external Solution Manager to SAP Customer's without a Correct Maintenance.

I can't stop writing inconveniences to any company that use External Support detaching SAP from SAP...

Thanks Jose Manuel Salgueroto open a discussion like this to allows customers in that situation to see what they are losing, and the risk that this can afford to most important and critical business process for their business.

Regards,

Luis

Former Member
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Hi Lluis,

Many thanks your valuable feedback.

Just one clarification here, I'm not taking about a Partner without SAP Support, these companies to switch the current SAP Support to them own support.

In addition you can have as many partners you want (Basis, Development, Application Support ...) but as you don't have contracted any support with SAP they cannot use the SAP support services for you.

In summary, if you have a problem in your SAP landscape, instead of open a message to SAP, you have to open a ticket to this company and they should be able to solve it by their own.

I know that it sounds odd but it is like that.

Actually my goal with this post is to raise all the risks and benefits, if there is any, of this model and above all to get the feedback from people that are working with this model.

Kind Regards.

Lluis
Active Contributor
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Hola Jose Manuel,

Thanks for your clarification, it sound really dark what I understand on my first read

On a scenario like you comment:


..n't have contracted any support with SAP they cannot use the SAP support services for you....

For my understanding, any SAP customers, are forbid to contact SAP trough SAP support services, like oss message/incidents, mopz, etc...

Thinks on that 2 types of contracts:

1.- Direct Customers:   They are able to Send OSS support message or request SAP service trough marketplace (that will change in the future), the best is to use their own SAP Solution Manager for that,

2.- Channel Customers:   They are able also to Send OSS support message or request SAP service but they have to use "VAR" Solution Manager, because that VAR is the SAP partner that manage that type os customers license. That customers open solman tickects and if it is necesary Partnner have to send the incident to SAP.

3.- there are more type, like Large customers, etc.. but they use option 1 also, SAP partner is not responsible of SAP services.

I work at Seidor on the setup of VAR scenario with Solution Manager to allow all our channel customers to contact or request SAP services trough our SAP Solution Manager.

I think that this can answers you, anyone of that customers are on Risk to contact SAP Support, if you need more information you can contact me trough private message and we can talk trough mail.

Regards,

Luis

Former Member
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HI Lluis,

Customers are allowed to have a SAP system without the Support of SAP AG. Every customer can contract the support with a third-party supplier to get the technical support. This also applies to others SW like Oracle, JD Edwuards .....

Of course you still have to pay the license of use for the SW but not the Support part.

This is the case that I have raised in this Blog. The point is not the way you access to the SAP support but who gives actually the support.

Kind Regards

Lluis
Active Contributor
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Your are Right Jose Manuel, I only try to explain you my point of view. we are talking about 2 different support options ;-). Maintenance Side and License Side.

Regards,

Lluis