Use of different GL account for Material in SD other than GL maintaind in VOKA table

[prasad_satam]

Hello Experts,

I have one query related to account determination for FI posting for Sales in SAP through SD invoicing process.

My client wants a material which can be use with different different Gl accounts as and when required and not GL maintained in VOKA table.

The requirement has arise as the client wants to recover some cost from customer through DR. note processed through invoicing process.

We have separate order type created for DR note to customers.

Please guide me how to work on this, Is there any way-out or alternative to fulfill this requirement.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

PSFICO

[former_member182378]

prasad,

Please answer the below questions -

1. Are the G/L account(s) maintained in VKOA

2. Material in the sales order and purchase order are the same (e.g. Rent of Hall for seminar)?

These questions are important!

[prasad_satam]

TW,

Answers for your questions

1. Yes

2 .Yes

Regards,

Prasad

[Former Member]

hey prasad,

i believe you can explore the possibilities of Substitution rule in FI in order to substitute a particular GL account determined through VKOA .

kaushick

[prasad_satam]

Dear Experts,

Again I am writing the scenario.

We are Vehicle Sales Company. We have activities like Dealer Training, Dealer Campaign,Dealer Education Program for Spare Parts etc.

To carry out above programs our marketing team incurs some cost like Promotional Expenses, Advertising, Rent for Auditoriums etc.

Now through Purchase Cycle we book all the cost till MIRO.

The requirements is to recover this cost from dealers in the form of Dr. Note. which is as good as my invoice to the customer.

As FI consultant I have suggested to client to use transactions like FB70 where user can credit the GL account as per my Purchase booking. (I am not using revenue GL account here but using same GL which I have used in my Purchase expenses booking).

Now client wants to route this through SD Invoicing Cycle. So we have created material for events like Dealer Training, Dealer Education etc.which we have mapped to AAG in VKOA T-Code.

But now we are facing issues to map those materials for all the GL accounts which we have used in booking the expenses incurred at the time of event.

So the new requirement came out is "Material which is free for use with any GL and not restricted to AAG in VKOA  T-Code".

I hope i have made my requirement clear again this time.

Please help. I have replied to my client that its not feasible in SAP.

OR if you guys know any other process of recovery form customers for this kind of scenario.

Regards,

Prasad

Message was edited by: prasad satam

[former_member182378]

prasad,

In my opinion your requirement is not possible with standard SD.

[former_member184555]

Hi Prasad,

1. Now through Purchase Cycle we book all the cost till MIRO.
2. But now we are facing issues to map those materials for all the GL accounts which we have used in booking the expenses incurred at the time of event.
3. So the new requirement came out is "Material which is free for use with any GL and not restricted to AAG in VKOA  T-Code".

Can you please clarify the below points.

1. What are the materials (services) you are procuring through Purchase cycle?

2. Are you using the same materials (that were used in procurement cycle) in the SD cycle to recover the training costs from customer?

3. What are those materials (by description)?

4. What are the issues you are facing in mapping the GLs through VKOA?

5. What do you mean by..."Material which is free for use with any GL and not restricted to AAG in VKOA  T-Code".

Regards,

Ravi Sankar

[former_member205178]

Hi,

Welcome to the discussion. The more the merrier ! I have no intention of hijacking it. 

There is a better clarity on the requirement now. This was not the case in the beginning. That way you have joined at the right stage. Prasad has almost given up on the solution.

Hopefully your questions and expertise might retrigger interest in him to pursue this further.

Thanks.

[prasad_satam]

Hello Experts,

The game is still on and I am also exploring ways to fulfill this unique requirement of my client.

@ Ravi- If you go through the thread you will get all the answers abut the requirement.

@D Sea- As u said 'The only thing is that instead of creating a PO directly for them, we could create a Sales Order with the Dealer as the customer and we are purchasing the Third Party Items for them and fulfilling the order. The assumption here is that for every training or any other event, it is a one to one scenario where you are doing only that Training related purchases.

If you can explore this with some some example will be helpful for me to understand,as in my company I have no helping hand for SD. Will you please do me a favor.

Thanks and Regards,

Prasad

[former_member184555]

prasad satam wrote:
@ Ravi- If you go through the thread you will get all the answers abut the requirement.

Sure, will do it.

Thank you!

[former_member205178]

Hi,

I have already given the potential mapping solution in one of the replies to TW [Aug 15, 2013 9:33 PM] in this long thread. This is a likely direction and you may not have a perfect solution as the requirement itself is not standard at least for SAP ERP.

Tell your SD and MM Guys to explore Third Party Customer Sales Order[not Vendor] Process for this. If they cant even help you / explore this, the only words I can think of for them - unprofessional or incompetent - and God save your SD & MM Business Users

Have a happy solutioning.

I am dropping off of this discussion.

Thanks.

[former_member182378]

D Sea,

I appreciate the effort you have put in to this thread!

The difference between SCN (answers / posts) and real-work - most often -is there is not so much detailed analysis or discussion in SCN, as there is in real-work.

I have one quick question (request) which I had asked earlier, could you please comment on the below -

D Sea,
Your suggestion is 3rd party process (It could be any sales process), but the main question is if the G/L account(s) are not maintained in VKOA, then how after the sales process the amounts could be posted to the required G/L accounts?

Thank you!

[prasad_satam]

D Sea,

I guess every one in this thread know the said requirement is not standard and that is why I am struggling.

Else I would have not post anything for standard SD.

Thanks for all your efforts.

Thread is still on

Regards,

Prasad

[Former Member]

Hello,

G/L posting at billing level can be controlled by Sales document item category inspite of material having the same valuation class.

Please check.

Regards,

[former_member205178]

Hi TW,

Thanks for your comments on my attempts in this discussion.

If you are keen on a one on one interaction, we can connect and you can send me a direct mail.

I am new to SCN and I dont know if this is even feasible.

Thanks.

[former_member205178]

Hi,

If you see your first discussion point and see the stage at which this is now, at least the requirements are pretty clear.

We as contributors cannot walk through with you on every point especially since based on what you have indicated your expertise is in FI. 

For me this is now into a real world consulting realm and no longer just a simple question and at this stage, it is very important that your company/client's SD and MM Team Members are involved. They have to work directly with you, otherwise, the likely solution will be just that "Likely" not an actual one.

Other contributors and I have given some pointers on this. You can collect all of these and you all - SD, MM & yourself work through it. Any good consultant can work through this. I am pretty confident that there might be some solution based on the status of this discussion so far.

I had already dropped off the discussion but somehow got involved again.

Happy solutioning.

Thanks.

[prasad_satam]

D Sea,

Just wanted to tell you as I have written above I have no helping hand for SD in my company,which means there is no SD or MM consultant. You are again and again writing for SD and MM consultants in my company and their about capability and  how they are unprofessional which is really not required here. If I could have those consultants, I would have not asked for solution here. I hope you will get it what I have written.

Again thanks for all your time and contributions for this discussion.

Thread is still open ... I Hope I will find out something.

Regards,

Prasad

[former_member182378]

Vikas,

Thank you for your post!

Could you please explain further? (in more detail)

[prasad_satam]

Dear TW/Vikas,

Really thankful that still you guys are exploring this thread.

I hope we will get some resolution.

Regards,

Prasad

[former_member205178]

Hi,

My assumptions about SD & MM Consultants are based on what little information you have given.

I checked the whole thread and I find only one place[ I could be wrong ] where you say  "I have no helping hand for SD". I beg to differ with you on the way you felt we should have interpreted your statement. Your statement could be inferred in more than one way. 

For Example, it could also be inferred that there is no helping hand for SD even though they are present so you are only exploring the solution and once you have one you can approach them with a stronger case. I have been in so many client situations where things are political and people work in silos.

Further, if you observe the whole thread so far, thanks to other contributors like TW, Raj, Kaushik, Ravi Shankar, Vikas, Etc. we have reached a stage where we have clarity in the requirements.

This has happened after a lot of back and forth querying to you. This is kind of normal for the requirements to evolve. To suggest that I was being anything other than trying to help you would be taking things too far.

My being harsh on SD Person in your company is a moot point for your solution. If there is someone there, I just told my views and there is nothing ambiguous about them and I stand by my statement. If there is no one, we do not have to worry since it does not matter. Right

Anyways, at the end of the day, it does not matter to either of us. You are looking for solutions and we are purely volunteering to give some inputs which could be useful to you.

As said earlier, you can look for Third Party Sales Order Process for this. I have replied to TW in one of the threads on Aug 15, 2013 9:33 PM. on this point. That seems most close to what you are looking for. Of course it needs some tweeks.

Without going into too many details, I can say that other contributors have valuable points and those could be incorporated as part of this process.

Thanks.

[prasad_satam]

Thank You all for your valuable replies. I am not getting any resolution on this issue.

The issue is closed.

Regards,

Prasad

[former_member205178]

Hi Mr. Prasad,

Here are my two cents!

It is not that you are not getting any resolution at all. It is just that it is more complicated than what it might seem to be. A potential robust solution just might need involvement and buy in from MM & FI which may not be difficult given the clarity of the requirement now.

When we deal with ERP like SAP and requirements like what you have[non standard] the solutions cannot be looked at in silos. It might be the process flow which has to go through different modules to get to the desired state of good solutioning. 

The questions the other contributors to this post have asked and likely paths which they were trying to propose[so that it could lead to a potential solution], looks to me, have been sincere.

Once we get an understanding of the whole picture [which for sure involves inputs from MM & FI] the solution would be possible.

It is easy to give up if we dont have the whole picture but we as SAP Professionals we dont give up for creative solutions. Do we ? That is our job to challenge ourselves to make ways for business to perform better Remember the SAP mantra -> The Best-Run Businesses Run SAP

Anyways, your choice!

Thanks.

[former_member182378]

prasad,

Your query is a "tough query"! (in the SD forum)

The requirement is to post amounts (of billing documents) in to G/L accounts not maintained in VKOA.

This is "against" the mechanism of how amounts are posted in SD!

I suggest you ask an FI consultant. Probably in FI there is an option to transfer the amount from on G/L account to another G/L account.

You / FI user would have to transfer the amount from the G/L account determined by SD (after billing document is created) to the required G/L account (via an FI transaction code) (to a G/L that is not maintained in VKOA).

[former_member182378]

D Sea,

Enjoyed reading your post!

Thank you!

[former_member184065]

Dear,

Whatever you said is Impossible in FI .We can not transfer amount from one G/L account to another G/L account .

                       If we dont release Billing Documents to accounting in VF02 or VFX3 then FI guys will be get problems when they are posting amount to respective customer with respective G/L accounts.We need to realse any Billing document to accounting before posting amounts to respective G/L accounts in FI level .

So,If we want to release Billing documents then you need to maintain VKOA settings .Without VKOA settings ,you can not release them in VF02 or VFX3 .

If you have any doubts please let me know .

Thanks,

Naren

[former_member182378]

Narendra,

I would suggest you to read posts more carefully!

I think you have not got the main message of my suggestion.

It could also be that my post was not clear enough!

My suggestion was as follows -

1. Sales cycle completed, (i.e. SO>Delivery>PGI>Billing, Accounting document) with amounts posted to a G/L account. (e.g. G/L 1)

2. FI user shall transfer the amount from G/L 1 to G/L 2

G/L 1 is maintained in VKOA

G/L 2 is not maintained in VKOA

Now, I am not sure if point 2 can be done. Probably an FI consultant can clarify.

This was my suggestion.

[former_member184065]

Hello,

I have understood your post completely thereafter I have suggested that ,It may not be possible in FI .I would suggest you to please learn FI things also because you are suggesting that impossible things to OP person .

Thanks,

Naren

[former_member205178]

Hi TW,

I say what I see .

Happy to note that you liked it.

Still have to get back to you on the Volume Rebate thing

Thanks.

[former_member205178]

Hi,

I think it seems a little too over the board to infer from someone's comments if they "know" a particular module.

Let us tone down our language and maintain the decorum. I see some bad blood here.

End of the day, we are all contributors here and dont intend to ride over each other. We may not agree to each other and have strong feelings about that, but in the end it does not matter. What matters is whether all of our contributions to a post are either collectively or individually getting to solutions.

All of us have given what we understand and it is for Prasad to take it from here. If he feels that he is not getting any resolution, that is his call.

Prasad:

Being a FI person, you can push the envelope here. In my experience, you guys hold the power to get things done, even though it is a non standard process. . If the FI Business folks strongly feel about this process gap, you have them on your side and it will be easier to get your company's SD & MM folks onboard. 

I had to go overboard many times in making things work in many projects because Finance needed non standard solutions.

I rest my case here.

Thanks.

[prasad_satam]

Dear All,

Thanks for all your replies.

The scenario is - We have multiple events like Dealer development/Dealer Training etc. For which marketing team has incurred some expenses which I have posted in some GL accounts as per the case and nature of expense.

Now I have to recover the same from my Customer/Dealer through invoice processed through SD invoicing process at the same time I have to give effect to same GL account where I have booked the cost incurred by my marketing team.

Since marketing team use n number of expense GL for different scenarios, so it is not possible from my end to map all those expense GL accounts through FI _SD integration. Simply User expectation is that the expense GL that used in Purchase order by Marketing Team, should be reflected in billing document.

Kindly suggest, I hope it has some resolution in SAP.

Regards,

PSFICO

Please help.

Regards,

PSFICO

[former_member184065]

Dear,

Now I have to recover the same from my Customer/Dealer through invoice processed through SD invoicing process at the same time I have to give effect to same GL account where I have booked the cost incurred by my marketing team.

If  you want to recover the same to already effected G/L accounts then reverse the process then it will be effected to same G/L accounts .

Thanks,

Naren

[prasad_satam]

Hi,

Will you please explain the same.

Regards,

PSFICO

[former_member182378]

prasad,

An expense is incurred by your maketing team e.g. for Dealer Training.

How is the value /amount posted in a G/L account?

Is the G/L account not maintained in t-code VKOA? (with the respective "condition record"?)

In the sales cycle (sales order, delivery, billing) there is no "option" to give the G/L account (directly). It is determined via Account determination (condition technique).

Please note that the Material account assignment group can be manually changed in VF01, in your billing document, at line item level. This way user can "manipulate" which G/L account to determine.

[prasad_satam]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I want to tell you that expenses incurred e.g Dealer Training are booked through PR, PO and MIRO process and that too in N no. of accounts as per the case and nature iof expense.

I cant maintained all the GL accounts in T-Code VOKA under AAG.

Regards,

Prasad

[former_member182378]

prasad,

Thanks for your post!

I suggest you post this question in the FI and MM forums also.

[former_member184065]

Dear,

What I am saying is If we created Sales Order ,Delivery and Billing and then FI team will be cleared in FI transaction .Now ,coming to the point is If you want recover that then reverse the whole process like when you cancel the Invoice in VF11 then it will be effected on same G/L account and do reversal PGI in VL09 .

or else create Debit Memo request and do Debit memo but assign same G/L accounts to this process also.

If my understanding is not correct then please let me know in detail with Example .

Thanks,

Naren

[former_member182378]

Narendra,

From comments from the OP and my understanding -

I want to tell you that expenses incurred e.g Dealer Training are booked through PR, PO and MIRO process and that too in N no. of accounts as per the case and nature iof expense.

The marketing team incurres an expense (e.g. Dealer Training), this is via the purchasing process.

Now this expense is posted to some G/L account (via the purchasing process).

The company sends a bill for this incurred expense to the customer. (e.g. Dealer Training).

The requirement is to post this amount (billing amount) in to the G/L account (refered to in the purchasing process, above).

This G/L account is not maintained in VKOA.

And requirement is to not maintain these G/L accounts in VKOA.

Thus cancellation of a sales cycle or creation of Debit memo cycle won't satisfy the requirement!

[former_member205178]

Hi Prasad,

Thanks to TW for getting it to a stage where the process becoming more clear from being muddy initially. 

What we now know is that the GL Accounts you are mentioning are derived from the PR> PO > MIRO Process.

I am not having SAP System with me currently + My ignorance of T Codes [ never comfortable with T Codes being a Customizing Menu Path Guy ]  led some of us on a wild goose chase literally . Apologies all, I am guilty of aggravating this chase. Anyways, as TW mentions this issue might need a look from MM and FI point of view for sure.

If you are interested to explain further, I have some further questions [ which I am trying to make them as logical as possible using my limited SD, MM & FI understanding ] at this stage :

1) Are you using the same Material Number that you use in PO process in the Debit Memo too ? That way it is Apples to Apples comparison ?;

2) Are you using Multiple unique Materials separately to represent the scenarios of Dealer Training / Dealer Development, Etc. ?

3) What are the precise GL Account Types for these - P&L / Balance Sheet Account ? Based on this distinction, we can say we can potentially map them or not ;

4) Let us say, somehow we are able to map the GL Accounts in SD, the reality is that when trying to use them in Debit Memo these will be treated as Revenue due from the Customer ? Is that what you really want ? This is a question for the FI Folks. We are just trying to recover the cost which is different than making a revenue;

5) Taking inputs from Point # 1) you have to also make sure that there is a reference between the PO and Debit Memo for reporting and reconciliation of amounts;

6) Last but not the least, are you really doing this Debit Memo SD Process today, but finding difficulties in hitting the right GL Accounts OR You are thinking of the Debit Memo Process. There is a huge difference here.

If you look at these questions closely and answer them each in detail you might be making a good case for your requirements. Dont go for a spin, based on the wish list of business wanting some goofy solutions. Have a realistic understanding on what is needed from the system point of view. 

To me, this seems more complicated than what the initial impression was and as TW has pointed out, this needs involvement of MM & FI Folks.

Worst case scenario, you might even want to relook at the whole process mapping here. Third Party Order Processing used creatively, might be a better fit for your scenario. You can create a New Order Type to capture this. At that stage you may not even require a Debit Memo. Just a thought ! 

Anyways, these are things for you to chew ! My two cents !

Thanks.

[former_member182378]

D Sea,

I have enjoyed reading you post!

Thank you!

One important question (there were some detail-questions, but let those be ) -

Third Party Order Processing used creatively, might be a better fit for your scenario. You can create a New Order Type to capture this. At that stage you may not even require a Debit Memo. Just a thought ! 

How a new order type would be a probable solution? (or a new process be a solution?)

Please note - that the requirement is to post amounts to G/L accounts not maintained in VKOA.

[former_member205178]

Hi TW,

I do not have the SAP System in front of me so this could be a wild idea and that is about it . Here is the theoretical idea I have. There could be lots of kinks in this and it may not even be feasible at all:

Step # 1:

Whenever you want to conduct a Marketing Training, create a Third Party Sales Order with the Dealer as the Sold to Party[for the part where the company wants to expense the training] and the Item Category as the Third Party Item.

Step # 2 :

The Sales Order will create a Third Party Sales Order > PR > PO and go through the. In theory assume that the dealer is conducting the event so maintain him as the Vendor. He is fulfilling the Sales Order So we are paying him for the training. This is still not in actual payment but in books as an entry.

There is a setting in Customer Master Data > Control Tab in which you can mention the Customer as Vendor with the Vendor Number. Maintain the Vendor Number there.

Basically we have to maintain the Dealer as a Customer and Vendor  

Step # 3:

The Sales Order goes through the Vendor Process once the Vendor does the goods shipment, we come to the Sales Side and do the completion of the process and bill the dealer for the Marketing Training expenses as receivables from him.

Step # 4:

Once the Customer Invoice is raised, the Vendor Invoice Payment takes place. This will capture the expenses incurred by the marketing team.

Here the case is for a very strong team of SD, MM and FI Resources working totally together.

I know people might have many questions or may pounce on me or to even think that this is kind of feasible or point hundred reasons why it cannot work. I only have one thing to say - this is in theory and if people are creative, work as a team and are not interested in looking at why it will not work but how to make it work, we can achieve this.

Did I say that this will work ? No! Did I create such a solution in the past. No! Does it stop me from pursuing or thinking this is feasible ? Never.

Wishful thinking

Have a good one.

Thanks.

[former_member182378]

D Sea,

Basically we have to maintain the Dealer as a Customer and Vendor  

I have tried to understand your process steps.

When you say that the Dealer is the customer and vendor; but in this scenario the vendor is different, the customer is different.

prasad (OP) has explained that

- the vendor could be the auditorium establishment, which has charged the company (seller of vehicles) for hiring the auditorium for one day (seminar)

- the customer is the dealer

[former_member205178]

Hi TW and Prasad,

I will go with your statement that the vendor is not the dealer. In that case, it is much more easier for Vendor mapping and it truly represents the Third Party Process though this may not be the Vanilla one.

Based on who is supplying what you could maintain the Vendors and the Events can be maintained as Trading Materials - Material Type.

The real scenario is that the Dealer is given training which is actually provided by some other agency and the Marketing Company is actually just facilitating it. In that way, for the expenses incurred by the Marketing Department there would be Vendors who need to be paid.

The only thing is that instead of creating a PO directly for them, we could create a Sales Order with the Dealer as the customer and we are purchasing the Third Party Items for them and fulfilling the order. The assumption here is that for every training or any other event, it is a one to one scenario where you are doing only that Training related purchases.

With the above, there is a feasibility of mapping the process. There might still be some kinks here but it seems likely that they can be worked out.

Prasad: Tell me if you need more inputs or you want to get into the weeds on this. 

From now on, I will charge my consulting fee. Ha ! Ha ! Just kidding

[former_member182378]

D Sea,

Your suggestion is 3rd party process (It could be any sales process), but the main question is if the G/L account(s) are not maintained in VKOA, then how after the sales process the amounts could be posted to the required G/L accounts?

[Former Member]

Hi,

Please let me know on what basis the GL A/c Posting has to be Varied.

Regards

[former_member205178]

Hi Raj,

Good question !

I have been chewing the information too. I believe I jumped the gun a bit here for solutioning .

There could be multiple ways to deal with the issue some of which have already been pointed out by Robert, Jignesh and I.

The more pertinent question at this time is what you have asked Prasad.

From the looks of it Prasad's client is using a Dr. Document Type for the purpose of recovering the supposed losses that the client is suffering [since he is selling at a price lesser than the required price].

The difference would be on the Credit Side in the FI Posting that needs to be different based on Material. The Debit Side would be the same - Customer Reconciliation Account.

Prasad - Could you articulate your requirements better. Also could you confirm if my interpretation of your requirements is correct ?

Thanks.

[jignesh_mehta3]

Hello Prasad,

You requirement is to recover from some Cost from Customer in some cases which will be settled via Debit note later.

This means that you do not want the separate Gl Account for the entire posting but some for some part of it.

For this you can easily create a new Condition Type & Account key in SD pricing & there will be value in this condition only in some special cases. Now you can easily maintain a separate GL Account for this Condition type & Account key.

Thanks,

Jignesh Mehta

[former_member205178]

Hi,

You cannot escape the Auto Account Determination if you want to have postings in FI.

If you want a particular Material or a small group of Materials to hit a different GL Account than the others, one of the ways you can do this is to create a New Account Determination Table using Material # as an additional field apart from the Standard Material Account Assignment Group.

Once you create the table and activate it, have this table as the most specific table in the Revenue Account Determination in KOFI. Maintain the Material Entries in this table.  

Get back to me if you need more inputs.

Thanks. 

[Former Member]

HI,

you can also use a different pricing condition for your different scenarios.

Account determination has then to be set up based on conditions.

Best regards

Robert

[Lakshmipathi]

Try with EXIT_SAPLV60B_004 in Program SAPLV60B

G. Lakshmipathi