Confused a bit about abuse rejections

[Former Member]

Hi All,

I'm a bit curious about some abuse reports I've raised recently that have been rejected.  A few examples:

• http://scn.sap.com/community/business-one/blog/2013/06/21/what-is-the-data-insertion-types-in-xcelsi... - obviously not a blog, however my abuse report was rejected and it still stands.
• http://scn.sap.com/community/business-one/blog/2013/07/04/fms-in-automatically-generated-documents - this is a cut and paste of an OSS note, yet my abuse report was rejected.
• http://scn.sap.com/community/business-one/blog/2013/07/04/why-udf-in-row-level-is-blocked-after-part... - another cut and paste of an OSS note yet the abuse report was rejected.

I can't say I'm particularly bothered about people getting points but I don't see the value in having the same content copied from one SAP site to another.  In my mind, one of the key points of moderation on any forum is to keep quality up, noise down and ensure users are easily able to search and find the curated content.  For that to be successful, we need consistency.

If there was one blog that pointed out the useful OSS notes relating to SAP Business One for example, when they are useful and the real life problems they address (i.e. going above and beyond the very technical content on the OSS note itself) I wouldn't be bothered but what is the point in just copying and pasting the notes into SCN?!

As for the first one, I can't figure out why the abuse was rejected other than maybe the moderator hit the wrong button?!  Or maybe I'm just too uptight about this sort of stuff?

Gareth.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Another abuse report rejected - http://scn.sap.com/community/abap/hana/blog/2013/07/02/abap-upgrade-projects

I give up...

[JL23 · Accepted solution]

dont give up please.

I hope some more had the courage to click Abuse in such cases and cases where blogs and documents are created by copy of SAP notes ajnd content of help.sap.com

[ThomasZloch · Accepted solution]

I get "access restriced" messages for all four links, looks like these items are not publicly visible any more. It is also quite easy to get confused by the notification you get as a reporter, sometimes I'm also not sure what gets rejected or approved, the content or my report?

I'd also say, please don't give up. There is way not enough people who take the extra time (and courage?) to actually report inappropriate content.

Thomas

[Reagan · Accepted solution]

Hello

Please have a look at this link:

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-43552

The person who created this shamelessly copied it from the upgrade guide.

I believe this is not the way to write articles here if you want to share knowledge.

I see no point in these articles.

Thanks

RB

[ThomasZloch · Accepted solution]

comes from the same author. What's the use of posting an SNOTE-how-to when this transaction is around since 15 years (or so) and well documented?

Even more alarming is the fact that both mediocre pieces were liked and obviously 5-star-rated (a guess, as the names do not show) by roundabout the same ring of users, all with an "SAP employee" badge just like the author. Something for to have a closer look?

Thomas

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

It looks like they have finally been removed, possibly after this thread was posted

I don't think there are enough hours in the day to report all of the inappropriate content on here!

Gareth.

[Reagan · Accepted solution]

I still this article without any modification http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-43552

Although my "Report Abuse" was approved.

I am not sure what level of moderation was done here.

There is no point in awarding points for these articles when it is clearly a breach of the rules.

Regards

RB

[koehntopp · Accepted solution]

Hi Gareth,

that happened a couple of times to me, too, which is a bummer.

The email you get doesn't say _who_ rejected, it doesn't even have a link to the article (while it _does_ have the full content...).

Another one for the list of "room for improvement for moderation"

Frank.

[Former Member]

It's been a while since I resurrected this thread but just had an abuse report rejected against this quality entry:-

Seriously?!

[former_member183424]

I have also reported as "should be a correct subject" in comment.

Discussion is

But rejected.

[Former Member]

Hi and

Thanks for notifying us.

I changed the title and reached out to the member directly.

did you report it again via Alert? I couldn't find it in the queue.

Regards,

Oxana

[Former Member]

Thanks Oxana

[former_member183424]

Thank you..

Subject has been changed by space moderator.

[Reagan]

I came to know that rejecting a content by a moderator will not automatically remove the points but it is a manual process. I don't see a point in copying content from site A to site B.

If the points are not taken off from the users then there will be no change in this behaviour.

Here are couple of examples.

Can someone look into these threads please ?

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3593796

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3592181

All he did to reply the first thread is a quick Google search using the terms "BO 4.1 - architecture" and provided the first 3 links.

I am sure the OP read them before starting this discussion.

For the second thread he copied the content from the Jonathan Lewis blog, Oracle website and also from the Oracle white paper for all his replies.

Compression in Oracle – Part 3: OLTP Compression – All Things Oracle

Compression Support in Oracle Database 11g

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/storage/advanced-compression-whitepaper-130502.pdf

1436352 - Oracle Database 11g Advanced Compression for SAP Systems

The replies are from the same user and this is not the first time. He has a history of content rejection.

Regards

RB

[former_member183424]

You should press alert moderator immediately when you will like that post. Moderator will take action accordingly.

[former_member186498]

Hello Oxana Noa Zubarev and Jason Lax,

the last month I've pressed "alert moderator" hundreds of times for begging and offering points, normally they were deleted with messages like this

"Message was edited by: Laure Cetin Please do not ask for points, this is against the Rules of Engagement: http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-18590"

but 20-30 of my alerts were rejected and the points requests are still visible.

Today for the first time after an alert (user ends his answer with "Award points if helpful"), I've found the rejection's reason:

Reason: Marking answers as helpful helps us to identify questions that are really still open. Also, rewarding somebody that provided a helpful answer is also in our interest to keep motivation high. So, I would not see an issue in this request.

Otto Gold in his blog wrote

"... But even then you shouldn’t ask for points. That is against the rules. Lead by example -> give points when you’re helped by a stranger and want to thank the person. Don’t beg for points, ok? ..."

Rick Bakker in Foraging for points had a doubt if this is against rules, Jason answers that it's included in ROE but Rick explain that "... what you quoted doesn't discourage asking for points at all, it just encourages the giving of points. ..."

Maybe it's the time to align all the moderators and update the ROE including explicitly "asking and offering points are not permitted".

What do you think about it?

Regards

     Roberto

[matt]

I know what I think about it - that moderator is in need of training.

[former_member183424]

Strongly.

[former_member185167]

I'm a Moderator now and if I see people asking or even hinting for points I edit their post.

But, if I were to be challenged then I would have to admit that officially there is nothing that says they can't do it.

[JL23]

I interpret that asking for rewards falls under "Engaging in activity for the purpose of increasing one’s own or another’s points"

[former_member185167]

I do that every day!

[JL23]

Asking the OP to close a discussion is something different

[OttoGold]

Hi

we could have long discussions about this I have some strong opinions about what is ok and what not and over the years I have gathered a group of people that agree with my opinion (in fact it is the other way round: I joined an existing club that was formed long years before I landed here), but that does not mean it is a rule. I am sure you can find many that would not agree which is sad but it is like that. Even the way the ROE are interpreted differs.

In other words: Abuse reports are working (for you) only then when a person who processes them shares your moral priorities. Some people here have different standards and I try to respect that. It (sometimes) hurts, but there is nothing we can do about it.

If you share my view, I would be flattered and would think you contribute in a way I like and encourage and recognize and appreciate. If you don't, it is also ok.

cheers Otto

p.s.: Find people that you like here and stick with them. The system cannot be changed. People are actively fighting back to protect their ways. You don't want to be a part of that.

[Former Member]

Just for the record: moderating (and administrating) a heterogenous landscape is not easy. Some components use SCN even as an official support chanel until they are integrated.

The main quality problems (regardless of model) is the points system incarnations and business models which don't require any trained employees.

Behaving professionally is something completely different to being clueless. The system must promote professionalism (also for beginners) and not village idiot behaviour - hence the points system is the main problem for SAP's products on SCN.

Cheers,

Julius

[Reagan]

We will start with the basic training.

We will ask what "Cross Posting" is and ask for a solution.

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3586298

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3586299

My rejection list continues.

RB

[matt]

Rick Bakker wrote:

I'm a Moderator now and if I see people asking or even hinting for points I edit their post.
But, if I were to be challenged then I would have to admit that officially there is nothing that says they can't do it.

There are a number of approaches

1) Asking for points is tantamount to point gaming

2) Asking for points is against netiquette and decent behaviour - it is equivalent to nanny saying "don't forget to say thank-you".

3) If I, as a moderator, tell them they can't do it - then officially, they can't do it. Unless they appeal to on the support space and I am over-ruled.

Personally, I use option 2).

There's also no explicit rule that I'm aware of, that posting single links or link farms isn't allowed. But since the consensus is that such behaviour damages the utility of the site, then they too can be rejected on site.

In the ABAP space, there's no explicit rule that questions about manipulating date, or promoting FOR ALL ENTRIES over INNER JOIN isn't permitted. But try it, and if I spot it, it will get rejected.

Effectively, as moderators we do have considerable leeway over how we run our spaces. Some behaviour though, while not explicitly banned, still should be stamped out site-wide.

[matt]

Jürgen L wrote:



Asking the OP to close a discussion is something different

I find that one person posting on every thread they're involved in "don't forget to close the discussion" is effectively asking for points. There's obviously some judgement involved in each case though.

[matt]

Reagan Benjamin wrote:

We will start with the basic training.
We will ask what "Cross Posting" is and ask for a solution.
http://scn.sap.com/thread/3586298
http://scn.sap.com/thread/3586299

My rejection list continues.

RB

Well, the one in ABAP Development is the one that should stay - it's the right space, I believe. I've reported the other one that only has one answer.

[JL23]

Yes I agree on that, I said this myself in my welcome blog

Repeating asking "is your problem solved" in discussions where you contributed can easily be understood as asking for points.

there is still a wiki with the rules where you see some points more more directly  (good old times), here a part of it:

The forum offences include:

1. Asking repetitive basic questions that can easily be found by searching.

2. Replying with links to other answered threads. Instead you should encourage contributors to search before posting.

3. Closing thread with unnecessary comments like "asdf", "answered".

4. Posting multiple threads for the same question in the same forum or cross posting. Instead users should be choosing the best forum to post and doing so only in one.

5. Contributor asks again and again for points. Points are a voluntariy way to thank, they are not required.

6. Improper language/words or their variants are used - "urgent", "emergency".

7. Spamming or advertising with irrelevant threads.

8. Copy-pasting others content (for this offence, please contact the Collaboration team and don't reach out directly to the contributor).

[former_member186498]

I also agree with this, and if you put "please don't forget to close the thread" at the end of every discussion, like a mantra, by dint of repeating stuns, creates a kind of narcosis, and as side effect no one will note it more.

I clicked a lot of alert for this mantra repeated on every single answer

"Assigning points is the way of saying thank you on SCN, even if you choose correct answer or helpful answer, this thread will be reference to the future.".

For me  this is "asking points" also alone, at the beginning, if I remember well, a couple of them were approved but after they were rejected without explanation: didn't falls this mantra under

5. Contributor asks again and again for points. ?

I agree that between a "please don't forget to close the thread" and "reward points if helpful" the result is the same, at the end you receive some points but the first is for me "Marking answers as helpful helps us to identify questions that are really still open.", the second is just begging points and closing the question is just a side effect.

[former_member186498]

I can understand that there are different points of view on how to deal with a request of points:

some moderator delete the whole thread (probably believing that the other people who responded would have to alert the moderator and then takes off points at all), someone deletes the individual essage (and automatically points) someone leaves the message by removing only the offending line and takes away any points awarded and someone else puts it in red explaining that it is against the rules.

This falls into the questionable part on which each moderator has room to maneuver, but that is not to be approved should be shared by (clear for) all, and for this should serve the Rules of both users and moderators.

If in the same country (with the same rules as in SAP) the maximum speed is 130 kmh and I travel over the limit when I meet a patrol with a gauge of speed they should stop me and do a fine.
Since there is a range in amount, decide the amount based on the fact that it is the first time or the umpteenth time that I take a fine for speeding, how fast I was going 145 kmh or 220 kmh, etc.., but at the end, a patrol may decide for the minimum amount and another for the same reasons / conditions for the maximum amount, this can happen.

But it should not happen that a patrol saw a car that every day goes to 200 kmh and those who point out responds
"This comes quickly at home and leaves a free way for others, so I do not see any problem for that"

I think that asking and offering points are implicit Rules, and this cause ambiguity and create confusion also for moderators, that's why it should be include clearly in the Rules.

[JL23]

unfortunately I have my doubts with the wrong button.

sure it can happen.

But if such content gets abused at least 3 times by different people (yes I reported abuse for those documents last night - and all got rejected), then I expect that the penny drops and the the moderator should ask himself why a thought rejected document  can be abused again.

And no matter if rejecting the content or the notification, a line for a note is always present to explain the decision.

[Former Member]

Hi Gareth Ryan,

I second you. Please do not loose your heart....Please continue contributing the way are you doing till date. Moderator might have hitted wrong button...... One fine day they will recongnise you..!!

All the very best.

Cheers,

Pravin

[Former Member]

Thought I'd reprise this posting a bit...

Just had an abuse report rejected for this -

My abuse was "Not a blog".  I have no problem with the content and understand someone wants to get hold of the recording but please, can the moderators display some level of consistency?

If I queried many of the abuse rejections I receive on a daily basis I'd not got much else done but this one is pretty black and white in my book.

Cheers,

G.

[matt]

I get unauthorised when I try to go to that link. So (unless I'm experiencing some access problem) perhaps the abuse report was rejected, but other action was taken. Again: if moderators don't give an explanation, then this kind of confusion is likely to happen.

Consistency would be nice, but given the number of moderators, spread across the space, and the subjective nature of moderation, I wouldn't hold your breath!

[Former Member]

Hi Matt,

I can still see it - usually I think "Unauthorised" appears when the content has been auto-hidden due to a set number of abuse reports (sure it is 5.)

Know what you are saying about consistency and I greatly respect the work the majority of the moderators perform - instances like this just undermine all of the effort you put in.

Cheers,

G.

[JasonLax]

It's hidden because it's in the moderator queue, again.

Aside from the generic title and e-mail address, it's a not-a-blog.

[Reagan]

These were rejected.

These are not blogs. The users should create a discussion thread if they have an issue.

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-35348

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-40575

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-45908

http://scn.sap.com/community/erp/60-upgrade/blog/2012/09/14/account-402000-can-only-be-posted-to-ine...

http://scn.sap.com/community/erp/60-upgrade/blog/2012/08/23/question

Regarding these. Please check the content of these blogs.

http://scn.sap.com/community/erp/60-upgrade/blog/2012/11/27/software-update-manager-10-sp06

http://scn.sap.com/community/erp/60-upgrade/blog/2013/06/26/sap-r3-41-windows-2003-mssql-2005-to-sap...

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-43258

Regards

RB

[JasonLax]

Hi ,

I went back and processed them all: a couple were items I had also reported .

The only exception is .  No, not perfect but, well, I think we can let this one slide.\

J

: all of these that Reagan followed up on were in . Perhaps the mods processed them incorrectly?

[Former Member]

Hi Reagan,

This is unacceptable and under investigation.

Thank you for letting us know.

Regards,

Oxana

[Former Member]

Thanks

[Reagan]

Hello Oxana

Thanks. Here is another one which was reported as a duplicate thread in the Upgrade space and was rejected.

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3528554

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3528555

Regards

RB

[Former Member]

Thanks Reagan,

It was handled.

[Reagan]

Another one.

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3534329

Duplicate

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3534327

Moderator rejected it.

[Former Member]

thank you.

-Oxana

[Former Member]

Oxana, I'm getting a bit frustrated with moderators rejecting abuse reports about Private Information. I have discussed the topic many times with Jason Lax and there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for a moderator to reject a abuse report of type Private Information. If the message contains vital information in addition to the Private Information, the moderator should at least edit the message and remove the Private Information. Thanks.

The latest rejection

[Former Member]

Hi Samuli,

Answering in place of the moderators, sometimes I think they "reject" an abuse report after first actioning a small change.  For instance, they may delete contact details from a posting (using your Private Information example) and then reject the abuse, so that the original content has been suitably edited but not hidden and the abuse flag is reset and cleared.  I've always assumed this is driven by how the abuse mechanism works and if they approve the report, it automatically hides the content (but I may be wrong!)

Of course, this isn't always the case and some mod's do just reject stuff they shouldn't...

Hope this makes sense,

Gareth.

[Matt_Fraser]

Makes sense to me.

[Former Member]

Thanks but that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have reported it. Anyway, it is hidden now.

[Reagan]

I see the moderator himself asked for the contact details.

So it is understandable why he (if he is the moderator of that space) rejected it.

RB

[Former Member]

Actually it is not, it is against the rules and advising someone to break the rules could be considered worse than the violation itself. Anyway, I don't think that was the moderator's intention.

[Reagan]

Hello

Can you check these.

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3547342

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3547300

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3546309

He created more than 3 for sure.

The first thread is the recent one and content is written in capital letters.

[JasonLax]

The member created 4 in total and all have been rejected with notes.

[Former Member]

I reported http://scn.sap.com/thread/3549545 as cross posting with http://scn.sap.com/thread/3549491 which it is and the moderator chose to ignore it. What makes this even stranger is that the the one ending in 545 was created before the one ending 491 which doesn't make much sense assuming numbers are allocated consequentially.

[Steffi_Warnecke]

I re-reported it. Now it's hidden again. And I think, the first thread was edited later on, changing the time to the one from the edit (it happens with posts at least).

[Reagan]

User created 3 threads and I reported 2 of them but the moderator rejected only one.

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3551673

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3551590

[JasonLax]

I rejected

[former_member186498]

Hello Oxana Noa Zubarev Jason Lax

yesterday I alerted moderators for about 50 "Reward if helpful" & variations, almost all are approved with some difference but these 2 are rejected without explanations and the message is still visible.

Can you please check these.

http://scn.sap.com/message/14844051#14844051

http://scn.sap.com/message/14829376#14829376

Regards

     Roberto

[matt]

HI Roberto

I saw your reports, and I'm grateful for them. In ABAP development at least, they were all rejected - except a couple where they'd given the right answer. In those cases, I removed the points, and left a note explaining that they shouldn't ask for rewards.

Thanks

matt

[Former Member]

I think sometimes, if you aren't used to the workings of the moderating system, you can think your abuse reports are being rejected incorrectly, when actually the moderator has made a suitable edit to the content and messaged the author to give them some "advice" but has left the overall content in place.

I think this is probably the best outcome, it just isn't quite clear due to how the system works and the communications come back to the reporter.

[former_member186498]

Hi Matt,

thanks for the fast reply and clarification.
Even in cases in which it seemed rejected going to see the message was removed or defaced in red with the addition of a message from the moderator
or at least one message in the notifications like "Reason: user was warned, comment removed"
so it was obvious that it was a fake rejected, but this time I didn't had feedback and so I thought simply a different behaviour by some moderators.

Regards

     Roberto

[former_member186498]

Hi Gareth,

yes, when I started I was convinced that does not work, but then I saw that simply are adopted various feedback systems, who hides the thread or the individual message, who leaves visible but with a message, delete it and replace those with the inscription "removed by the moderator "and those who only informs on notifications that the user has been warned.
This is good for me because in few time I can check it and if I see some feedback I understand that even if it's rejected, however, has been "approved", but in this case I did not find anything and then seemed a moderator disagree.

I have to say that even on points, not all are aligned, some of them remove points so the user understands that it is counterproductive while others leave them, but maybe this is part of the moderators art that, as pointed out by Juergen (if I remeber well) is not a science.

Regards

     Roberto

[matt]

I've found the most effective ways of getting people to change their behaviour is to reject their posts and / or remove points.

[JL23]

if you reported it as "wrong space" then it is unfortunately so that your report has to be rejected to keep it visible and moving it then to the new space. without any doubt, the moderator should add a note like "moving it to ..."

[Reagan]

Again my report abuse got rejected. The SAP Basis certification in the SAP upgrade space.

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3493493

could you check this please ?

Thanks

RB

[JasonLax]

I've dealt with it. (Moved to certification.)

[Former Member]

Glad to see this post is still going strong and generating lots of discussion

[koehntopp]

Yesterday I reported this slightly opinionated blog which got rejected. Again, I have no idea who rejected it.

What do you think?

http://scn.sap.com/community/business-trends/blog/2014/01/27/uranium-busting-myths-and-energizing-th...

[matt]

I agree with the content, for the most part. However, I don't see what it has to do with SAP business trends particularly, and it seems to be an advert for Cameco. The author is a SAP employee - SAP Global Marketing. He says his job (according to his linkedin profile) is to:

"Create, optimize and celebrate our customer stories and disseminate to build pipe for reference customers while educate reader/prospect on how the avg joe (or customers' customer) benefits from these interactions. "

[koehntopp]

The customer success story would have been more visible without the pro-nuclear part which, while mostly correct (although I'd much rather be around 76000 bananas than anywhere close to Fukushima - I dare you!), is able to drive a major discussion that really has nothing to do with SAP....

My judgement was that this is much more political than marketing, which is why I abused it.

[matt]

Cameco is a uranium company - so I think it is marketing, but of something that is a political hot potato.

I agree that it doesn't really fit into that space.

[marilyn_pratt]

brought this conversation to my attention here (and many thanks, Auds for your ever watchful eye).

Guessing you might not enjoy my views  on this convo (and who KNOWS I'm a hopeless treehugger would probably be appalled to learn that I can actually read this and NOT censure nor kick and scream in my Birkenstocks nor pluck sadly at the strings of my folk guitar while moaning the fate of the planet) but I believe the comments you have here are somewhat wasted lost in this space.  Why not raise them to the author in the context of the blog?  Why not raise them to editor of in the blog comments?  I'm going to be contrarian and stodgy now (more in character, Julius?) but perhaps the "behind the scenes" conversation is more like idle gossip than valuable discussion?

PS I'm ducking now before the tomatoes and stones start flying at my head.

And BTW I'm not saying to make the comments incendiary or suggesting it's good to be abusive or rude.  I'm just suggesting that a healthy discussion  should be had in public IF there is such strong feeling about the contents being inappropriate or missplaced.  Whatever happened to healthy debate?  The abuse button isn't the best method for exchanging views and expressing opinions.

Back into my basement and organic garden.

Marilyn

[stephenjohannes]

It's not really abuse, it's actually a good poster child on how to write a blog that lacks meaningful contextual content revelvant to a general target audience or marketing "glossy" disguised as content.  The problem is not the point of the view.

The problem is that the blog is really an incomplete work of thought. We only get a two or three sentence paragraph at the end on how this topic is relevant to the SAP world and it's just a teaser to make you want to view some other marketing material. It's an example of old-school broadcast style communications disguised in a blog that really isn't trying to create a conversation.

I guess I'm just tired of seeing too many blogs in Business Trends that talk about how SAP is solving every world problem(from hot sauce shortages, personal romance on valentine days, etc) without any supporting justification.  It turns the whole area into a bunch of hot air, instead of perhaps providing some real insight which occassionally can be found.

Then again I just want better content regardless of viewpoint.

Take care,

Stephen

[koehntopp]

Marilyn,

Tim is totally entitled to his opinion, I do see no need to get into a public argument about what he writes.

Avoiding a public argument with an SAP colleague on the political part of his blog, or even worse, on him not writing a 'proper' blog, was exactly what I was trying to avoid by abusing the blog.

Nothing good could come from that.

Frank.

[marilyn_pratt]

Tim isn't the author- he is the editor. It's about education.

I understand the reticence to engage publicly but as Tim isn't the author he would never know that the blog was "abused".  If the community doesn't respond visably, he may continue to think this kind of content resonates well and continue to encourage that kind of contribution.  Make sense?

[koehntopp]

Oh, ok - see what you mean. Shouldn't answer that late in the evening

Tbh, that kind of thinking two levels deep never occured to me when moderating. That's exactly one level over my head for something I usually do over a cup of coffee during work hours, so I may refrain from trying to judge on this level and leave this to other moderators.

[former_member184657]

I have no clue why this Abuse Report was rejected too...

I have a feeling that if an Abuse Report has not been acted upon in an X number of milliseconds, the report will be rejected.

pk

[audreystevenson]

What reason was given for this blog to be considered abuse?

[former_member184657]

Wrong Space.

Why would someone be talking about New Year Resolutions and paraphrase the RoE in an SAP QM forum?

pk

[nitin_jinagal]

I would like to comment here. I posted this blog to help the community I belong to.

I want you to go through where it is clearly mentioned

Since I belong to QM, I expressed my views to keep the space clean and healthy. I haven't violated any rule neither posted something bad. This was in the best interest of the community. If you find it valuable, refer it to your space. If not, simply ignore it. I don't see any logic behind reporting it.

I use documents when I need to post something technical or any information. This blog only contain the QM users behavior on SCN. I didn't post anything about my personal life or not related to QM.

And please tell what should I post through a blog in a space ??

If you can explain this, I would myself ask my moderator to move the content to applicable space !!!

ntn

[matt]

Moderating is an art, not a science. Often it comes down to a subjective opinion. For me, I'd be happy if a blog like this had appeared in every space, so I think the moderators call was correct.

Not all blogs are immediately technical, but they may well relate to a specific space.

[nitin_jinagal]

Hi,

So you also agree that there is nothing wrong with this blog and moderator did the right thing by approving this. Thanks !!

I don't know what issues Kishan has got with this blog

ntn

[Former Member]

Of course you agree, its your blog.

It is easy to see Kishan's perspective. He thought it is an abuse, and reported it. Moderators decided to reject the report. And to clear up the confusion, he posted on this thread named "confused a bit about abuse rejections". The intent is simply to alert the moderator.

[nitin_jinagal]

Hi Manish,

yes I do agree. But I asked Matthew about his opinion.

Any my intent is just to know why would anyone want to report it abuse. If it is wrong space issue, then what should one post in space forum through a blog ?

Ofcourse everyone has got right to do it, but I think I have also got a right to ask if my content was reported. Moderator disapproved that, that's good for me but I should know the reason at first place

ntn

[Former Member]

The blog is like a social commentary, more suited to About SCN space.

It is not related to QM space.

In other words, blog is as much related to QM space as any other space.

The reason for reporting it is valid, and some moderators may consider this as abuse.

Posting in wrong space is one of the primary reasons that are listed in report abuse popup.

A content creator does not have right to know who abuse reported it.

If the abuse report is approved, only then the content creator is entitled to know the reason, which is generally written in the notification message.

[nitin_jinagal]

Somewhat agreed!!

But how would I take the responsibility of other forums ?? If I had posted to About SCN, probably someone would had reported it.

Reason,

"My space is working fine and such things shouldn't be posted publicly. If author has an issue, then it should be posted to relative forum"

I don't understand the logic. Still, I'm looking for the answer of correct content to be posted through blog on a specific forum !! 

ntn

[Former Member]

You have posted some technical content in SAP QM space.

You have posted some SCN specific things like views on SCN enhancement under About SCN space.

You have posted a BIF under About SCN space, and it is correct because it is a community thing and everyone is posting their BIF in About SCN. Few folks posted BIF in ABAP space, and later it was moved to About SCN space. Obviously it was initiated through report abuse option, but it is not really a bad thing for blog to get moved.

How does a new year resolution and comment on SCN member behavior fit into SAP QM space, which is again a part of SAP ERP space?

[matt]

It's abundantly clear why Kishan reported it. It wasn't to do directly with QM. I have some sympathy with this view. However, as it is addressed to the users of the QM space, in my view it's a border-line case, and I would tend to keeping it, because I think it sends a useful message.

Before anyone gets upset about their blog being report and rejected/accepted, remember that moderation is not black and white. Kishan did nothing wrong in reporting what he considered to be a blog in the wrong place.

The real concern is that the abuse report was rejected and no reason given.

[nitin_jinagal]

Yeah. But nobody has answered my question yet. What should be posted through blogs and what if someone else raise a finger on this if posted publicly??

I'm not bothered about Kishan or abuse reports, what bothers me is the ignorance to counter view !!

What if someone from SD(just for example) comes & ask me for a reason, just because SD is doing right..

I don't know.

ntn

[matt]

You do sound a bit bothered that a moderator reported your content, and that there is a body of opinion that thinks it should be elsewhere.

What is this "counter view" that we're so ignorant of? Perhaps if you explained it clearly, you'd get an answer. As it is, I really don't understand what you are getting at.

[nitin_jinagal]

I precisely mentioned it my last response. That's best I can do. And its fine if don't an explanation. One post one abuse doesn't end life. Nothing problematic 🙂 🙂

[nitin_jinagal]

I just want to know a correct 'blog content' so that I don't face it again. That's all. And same should be mentioned in RoE.

[matt]

We do not have every rule spelled out in the RoE. The list would never end. The final interpretation of the rules is up to individual moderators. As I've said many times:

1. Moderation is an art, not a science

2. Moderation is subjective, not objective.

If a post/blog/document is rejected or not is, in the grand scheme of things, kind of irrelevant. It won't affect how long you live, it won't affect your career, it won't affect how tall you grow...

You haven't "faced" anything. Someone reported your blog. The moderator of your space disagreed. So nothing happened. The words "storm" and "teacup" spring to mind.

[Former Member]

i came across some thread which is showing "Assumed answer" in which it has no reply's in discussion

http://scn.sap.com/thread/1893019

i sent Report Abuse in reply i got from Moderator is below screen shot. whether i should have not sent report abuse or simple ignored it. please correct me.

[JL23]

this is exact what I expected in my reply  8 replies earlier. Now it is among the new content with a current date and time for the last action.

From my point of view a question which is marked answered without having an answer is useless content and makes the search for good content difficult.

But maybe you could not convince the FI moderators. Had you added some prosa when clicking abuse? if not, then the moderator would not even know why this discussion should be removed.

And not to forget, this question does not violate any rule, so it is a legitimate question which still could be answered by someone.

[former_member186498]

I've tried also today with http://scn.sap.com/thread/1999211 adding "totally useles", other times with "just noise", but it was rejected and it's the second result if you search with <"bpc" run_allocation> and now it's also the first thread in BPC for MS .

other recent abuse rejected with "just noise" http://scn.sap.com/thread/2013513

Often ask or offering points are "abuse approved" but sometimes they will rejected without explanation,

like http://scn.sap.com/message/14492747

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3453107

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3329314 and the points reward messages are still there.

[former_member186498]

sorry I have to correct http://scn.sap.com/message/14492747 contains the reason but the asking points message is still there.

[matt]

That looks like a moderator who doesn't understand that Reject means reject the message, not the abuse report...

[former_member186498]

yes, in this manner only I know that isn't allowed to ask for points

[Former Member]

I have a doubt, Should i report for following kind of thread.

Someone asking for some material.. and correct answer is

                        "I have sent some document to your email id, please check it. "

If yes, then what if the thread is very old say 2007's thread.

[matt]

If it is reported and I see it, I'll probably just delete the post entirely. Mainly because such posts encourage "please send it to me too" answers for years afterwards!

[JL23]

It is a bit difficult to give a straight rule or guidance.

I can just tell you that the question should be abused  before someone even sends materials, as posting email addresses in the content of a discussion is not allowed.

I recently deleted some 100 of such discussions from MM as there is not any value in it, they just causing noise because someone new comes along and adds his email address too.

The problem is, some of those threads are marked answered, and if I remove them today, then the points get reduced today, even it is a question from 2007 or older.  And I am really do not want to punish someone today who was in a helping mood in 2007.

And if such discussions has other answers too,  which might be helpful and add some value to the forum, then the moderator may even decide to keep the content and rejects the abuse report, and this unfortunately causes that this old content is bounced among the new content, which is disturbing and gives a bad example because of the posted email addresses.

And editing such discussions - removing the mail address - will bring them as well among the new discussions.

Based on that I would say, if the thread is not marked with correct answer,

has nothing else than the request for materials and one or many  email address and an answer as posted by you.

Then it would be okay to get rit of it, and I would be okay if someone points me to such a discussion with an abuse report.

But in any case where it is not that clear, better dont touch it as it may turn the things even worse.

If you see that someone is adding his email address to such an old discussion, then abuse this new content. The moderator may then decide if he removes the entire thread. (At that time the thread is anyway among the new content)

[ThomasZloch]

Jürgen L wrote:

...and if I remove them today, then the points get reduced today...

Is this really so? I keep seeing this on the reputation tabs:

The second entry is missing the link to the question, which I understand means that the content has been removed in the meantime. Yet the points are still showing in the history.

Or is there another explanation for this symptom?

Thomas

[JL23]

goto the users reputation tab, then to the expertise section and there turn the card for ABAP development forum to see the reductions.

in case of such older discussions you could even see  negative points in the BIO tab if he has not made any points in this year.

[ThomasZloch]

OK, so it can be considered a bug that the item still appears in the history shown above, since those 5 points were actually subtracted from the total?

Thomas

[JL23]

It is just a positive view on things - maybe it should have a pink background.

I guess it is just similar like it is with a material document in SAP. If you cancel it, then you actually do not get rit of the original, instead you create a second record with negative values.

The reputation view shows only the original assignment, but not the cancellations. And the assignment is still visible as the content is not deleted, it is just hidden.

[Former Member]

Thanks Jurgen & Matthew Billingham.. Very soon i will send some work for you both as i saw some thread like this. ..

[Former Member]

kindly look at the correct and helpful ans. of XI material required please | SCN Thread.

and please have a look on following also.

http://scn.sap.com/message/5267917

http://scn.sap.com/thread/159686

[matt]

Not in my area. All I can do is make abuse reports.

[Reagan]

I'm still wondering what made the moderator reject my "Report Abuse" when it is clearly a breach of the rules.

Regards

RB

[ThomasZloch]

This varies from space to space, as per my experience. Some spaces have active moderators that seriously enforce the rules of engagement, professional etiquette etc. and also "dare" to reject content. In other spaces, posts seem to be treated with satin gloves, each one might come from a valuable customer having an issue with some SAP product, after all...

Also, sometimes global SCN moderators, who naturally cannot look into each detail, seem to rather blindly mass-approve all content (means reject the abuse reports), once the queues get too big.

In dubio pro reo, or something.

I tend to "report abuse" in spaces where it makes sense

Thomas

[koehntopp]

That's REALLY annoying - not that moderators are flawless, but if I report abuse only to see it come back to life later, a litlle moderator-to-moderator chat would be nice. Unfortunately that doesn't work as there's no moderation history on the item, so I don't know who the second moderator is ;(

[Reagan]

I tend to "report abuse" in spaces where it makes sense

I strongly believe moderation should be equal everywhere.

By the way I just pressed the "Report Abuse" link for this:

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-50657

Regards

RB

[JL23]

I am too, this is from the same person who kept us busy yesterday.

[Former Member]

Yeah Thomas, I also felt the same thing, one person created many blogs in different different space just wishing wishing "Merry Christmas ", so i reported for all saying " I think it should not be a blog ".. And the result was.. 2+ report accepted and content removed and 1 report rejected by moderators.

[Reagan]

I pressed the "Report Abuse" for this thread as it is in the ERP Upgrade space.

http://scn.sap.com/thread/3481616

The moderator rejected that.

The thread should be posted in the http://scn.sap.com/community/career-center (I believe)

Regards

RB

[matt]

I've issued an abuse report on that one myself, pointing the moderator to this thread.

[matt]

Wow that was quick. it's gone now!

[Reagan]

Thanks. Looks like the moderator got scared when you reported that

Regards

RB

[Reagan]

It is easy to stop this practice across the community if SCN penalize the users with 50 points (maybe more or maybe less) for every "Report Abuse".

Else this thread will bag the award or recognition for the most number of replies in a discussion on SCN and I will be the most hated user (which is alright with me).

A stitch in time saves nine.

Regards

RB

[Jelena]

As far as "the most replies" award, this thread (among others) is way ahead.

But as a recent convert to the "let's get rid of the points altogether" movement, I have to say that damages done by the point system, including the amount of time everyone has been spending on "where are my points", discussions how the system is being abused, etc. have already started to outweigh the benefits IMHO.

[Former Member]

Jelena Perfiljeva wrote:
As far as "the most replies" award, this thread (among others) is way ahead. 

Not sure if I should be proud that that's my thread as well or not...

I'd very much NOT like to see the end of the points system.  It's useful for numerous reasons in my eyes but mainly because the gamification encourages people to contribute and share - I wrote my first blog on SCN after the new gamification system went live, even though I've been using SDN->SCN since the very beginning.  The gamification setup was very much a part of encouraging me to finally make the effort!

There's lots of discussion around ways to improve the current system, with a blog and Idea from and a decent Twitter conversation as a starter with people like involved :-

https://twitter.com/LaureCetin/status/390885024733487106

I'm confident we'll see some interesting improvements in the near future.  Maybe some "negative reinforcement" via either loss of points for the poster of "noise" or alternatively missions around reporting AND approval of abuse (i.e. you don't get points for reporting abuse but you do if the moderators agree and confirm it - suggested missions along the lines of "dustpan, broom, trash can, garbage truck, resource recovery centre" for instance!)

Anyway, enough of my further ramblings...

Gareth.

[matt]

I'd like both. If you report and a moderator agrees, points get transferred from the abuser to the you.

Maybe we should also get points for every abuse report we handle.

[former_member181931]

We are listening. We're monitoring the effects of points and gamification with and may come up with some interesting proposals later this year.

Just wanted to say that each comment you make about points and badges, if new, is kept and taken into account.

Best,

Laure

[Former Member]

Thanks for the feedback - it's reassuring to know we aren't all just moaning into thin air

On that subject, to some outsiders lots of this ranting could be seen to be petty or pedantic - in my eyes it is often the small stuff that has the most influence, the devil is always in the detail.  The current situation with the CC is a prime example of that.

I know lots of people claim the points system doesn't matter and means nothing to them (I've said that before now) but actually, I do think it is an important and valuable part of the SCN ecosystem as long as it is fair and works in a balanced manner, and I do value the points I've slowly earned over the years.  I think the root of lots of the noise around CC content at the moment is the general perception that earning points in a Facebook "content" manner is unbalancing the points system and detracting from the overall aim of the system.

Ultimately, one of the key issues is the ability to manage point allocation on a space by space basis and everyone probably agrees that would go a long way to resolve this problem but we appreciate that there are currently technical obstacles to that.  Lots of suggestions of other ways to discourage "unbalanced" content have already been put forward so we are optimistic something will come soon to redress the balance.

The only thing I'd say is please don't leave any changes for too long, for some it may then be too little, too late.

Thanks,

Gareth.

[Katan]

Really sorry to have to say this.  But a side effect of trying to drive a culture where you award points just for posting means that there will always be individuals that post this sort of drivel.  I'm really pleased to read that other people actively report this stuff. 

As for the points rewarding, you'd almost be better off awarding points based on multiple user giving a positive rating (say after three people give a rating and with an average of three stars or above).  By making the process of getting points more difficult you hopefully help dissuade people from posting this sort of stuff.    

[Reagan]

Here is another one:

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-47863

Copied (read Xeroxed) from (even the screen shots) :

http://sapbasisphilosopher.blogspot.com/2013/08/different-phases-of-upgrade-sum-tool.html

Surprisingly the copy paste didn't work very well

After the part 5.2 comes part 5.5

5.2 : Extraction
Following activities performed in this phase:
5.5 Pre-Processing

The funny part is that the content that should come under the section 5.2 are shown after:

!!! Enjoy Learning !!!

I used the "Report Abuse" button but it was rejected by the moderator.

Regards

RB

[Former Member]

I'm tempted to start editing these documents and replacing the content with a link to the original source...

[former_member186498]

now when you open the doc you will see this message

"Publication of this document was rejected by one or more of its approvers. If you have permission to edit this document, you can resubmit it for approval by clicking the 'Edit' link, and then the publish button on the following page. "

shouldn't be made invisible? I see that I'm able to give rates, my Poor rate was accepted so I think is also possible to like it or give it 5 stars, why?

[Former Member]

It is a test of conscience of person who posted the document.

"They" are waiting for him to take action, to see whether he will delete the document OR republish it as is, OR republish it with value addition and attribution.

And he... may be playing the waiting game.

[JasonLax]

should only be visible to the author and moderators, but this isn't the case: all logged in member can see it but at least visitors that are not logged in can't.  I'm looking into this.

[Former Member]

I always thought that was just standard behaviour as that has always been the case (as far as I can remember) for when I report abuse on a document and it is rejected.

Thinking about it, that doesn't make sense as we are trying to hide it - d'oh!

[JasonLax]

Well, just added this to the list of strange things uncovered today and reported it to IT to investigate and fix. Thanks!

[former_member186498]

ok, thanks for the informations, it seems strange now I know it's just work for you

[former_member203488]

Hi Gareth,

Hi SCN Community,

being new to the SCN Community I found this discussion to be extremely interesting. 

I have used the forum in the past as a guest to look for answers to some of the more common questions, since becoming a member I have noticed that there is quite a bit of "noise" as you have mentioned.

This is making it more difficult in finding and providing the answers that are required.  I would welcome additional dialogue in this arena to curb what may become an epdidemic across the board.

Thank you, and keep up the open minded analysis.

Best regards,

A.G.H

[Reagan]

Heights of plagiarism and that too from one user.

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-44511

http://sybaseblog.com/sybasewiki/index.php?title=If_user_database_log_is_completely_full%3F

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-44351

http://sybaseblog.com/sybasewiki/index.php?title=If_tempdb_is_completley_filled_up%3F

http://scn.sap.com/community/db2-for-linux-unix-windows/blog/2013/07/25/db2-105-with-blu-acceleratio...

http://www.saphana.com/community/blogs/blog/2013/06/16/setting-the-record-straight--sap-hana-vs-ibm-...

Time for moderators to act.

Regards

RB

[JL23]

if you see such, please click abuse hyperlink. This will inform the moderators, which is certainly better than posting it in the Support forum.

[Reagan]

I have already done that and no response yet.

[Former Member]

I'm pretty sure that if a certain number of abuse reports are received for a certain item, it is automatically hidden.  I've just reported abuse on those three links you've mentioned and they are now all hidden.

So, as mentioned, it really does pay to keep reporting abuse.

Gareth.

[JasonLax]

That's correct: multiple abuse reports will hide the content until a moderator takes action. Once the action is taken, a notification is sent out to the reporter to confirm if the abuse report was accepted or not.

[Jelena]

(sorry, hit a wrong reply button) @ Reagan above: It takes some time for the moderators to follow up, please be patient. We need to keep in mind that most (if not all?) moderators are volunteers and they might be in a different time zone, so they can't provide instant service for every report. You did the right thing by reporting the offending items, just give it some time to resolve.

Message was edited by: Jelena Perfiljeva

[Reagan]

On the evidence given so far I believe it is time to educate the user on how to create articles.

No matter whether they get rejected or not he fails to understand the Rules of Engagement

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-44546

http://db2luw.blogspot.cz/2012/06/identifying-primarystandby-dbs.html

[koehntopp]

That would be part of my questions: I abused some, with comments, then got an email "Your abuse report has been rejected".

How does that work???? As I'm not the moderator in these spaces I couldn't deal with them myself.

Frank.

[Jelena]

I got a rejection when reporting that this post is in a wrong space. It's been posted in general SD forum but it's in Portuguese (?) language. There is a designated space for that, it just needs to be moved (or posted in English). It still shows up in SD forum (with 0 replies, naturally) as is. What gives? Did moderator hit a wrong button?

[JL23]

This   screen shot shows how a moderater is seeing an abuse reported item

the wrong button is a pull down menu, default empty, moderator has to select according to his decision

[Jelena]

Jürgen, thanks for sharing this. So really to move a post an abuse report has to be rejected (because content doesn't really need to be hidden) and some manual action needs to happen, right?

Looks like even the moderators got short-changed by Jive...

[JL23]

correct

[Former Member]

And another - http://scn.sap.com/community/public-sector/blog/2013/07/10/deletion-of-superior-fund-center

Come on!

Gareth.

[ThomasZloch]

This is clearly a question, not a blog, a mistake by the poster. So your report was rejected? I have filed another one. to the rescue!

I keep having the impression that moderation practice is fundamentally different across SCN spaces. In some, the are being enforced like they should, in others there seems to be a great fear of scaring customers or newbies away, some spaces are run as an extension to or even replacement of the corresponding service market place area, and some are probably simply lacking suitable and active moderators. So I guess if the space of your report falls into the latter categories, it will not be dealt with in a reasonable fashion. Does not exactly encourage you to keep spending time sorting out inappropriate content, does it?

Thomas

[JasonLax]

I've reject and you should have received notice.  I also DM the author.

About blogs, the warning message about them being deleted or hidden doesn't appear when it should.  So while moderators can still see a blog post deleted or hidden, regular members won't be able too. You can test this by trying to visit the URL without logging into SCN.

...almost forgot to add that you must always add a message to the abuse report when selecting the General category.  If not, there's no way to know what the abuse being reported is unless it's very obvious, such as a notablog.

[Reagan]

What about this one :

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-43552

Regards

RB

[JasonLax]

No longer published. This appears at the top of the page.

"Publication of this document was rejected by one or more of its approvers. If you have permission to edit this document, you can resubmit it for approval by clicking the 'Edit' link, and then the publish button on the following page."

[Former Member]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the response.  For the record, I always add an explanation to my abuse reports (mostly "notablog"! ) so I'm hoping that's not the issue.

Another example, a user has posted the exact same blog twice:-

http://scn.sap.com/blogs/playgroundjs/2013/07/05/html5-is-awesome & http://scn.sap.com/community/developer-center/front-end/blog/2013/07/11/html5-is-awesome

I reported abuse on one of them, wrote that it was a duplicate and linked to the other - my report was rejected.  To be fair, I don't think this is "abuse" as such, probably a genuine user mistake and the blog was posted in the wrong place the first time, however I'd still hope moderators can tidy this sort of stuff up.  There's enough noise on SCN as it is without us duplicating it!

And to be fair, this duplicate blog is actually a good read, it just needs the duplicates tidying up, IMHO.

Thanks,

Gareth.

[Former Member]

But what does "No longer published" mean? Since we can clearly still see the document, like it and comment on it in what way is it not published?

Steve.

[Reagan]

You have a valid point.

I believe the document is visible only to those who are logged in.

I would consider taking the article or document completely offline.

Regards

RB

[JasonLax]

Means it's back in draft mode. Moderators and the author can see it but other community members or visitors cannot.

[Former Member]

Community members are able to see it.

[JasonLax]

Which one? http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-43552 & http://scn.sap.com/community/public-sector/blog/2013/07/10/deletion-of-superior-fund-center are not.

[Former Member]

I am able to see http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-43552

[Reagan]

Jason,

I am able to see almost all I've reported.

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-47863

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-43552

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-44511

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-44351

http://scn.sap.com/docs/DOC-44546

Regards

RB

[JasonLax]

Yup: there's a bug.  It was reported and being tracked here:   > COMM-2839 Rejected or Abuse Reported SCN Documents Visible to All Logged in Members

[koehntopp]

Hi Jason,

that may be part of the confusion.

Can this be fixed by, say, adding a banner that says "Content is hidden due to abuse" or something like this? That would make our work easier...

Frank.

[Former Member]

I would like to report another effect of this bug.

When previewing using activity feed, the document does not have banner text indicating that "Publication of this document was rejected by one or more of its approvers....".

It looks as good as any other content in activity feed.