ERP and BW together in one HANA instance?

[Former Member]

After SAP's bold announcement yesterday I wonder whether this means you can already operate ERP and BW together in the same HANA instance? It would be the next big step forward, eliminating BW data loads and remove redundant storage.

I didn't hear any claims that BW and ERP could already run in one HANA database. So I believe this scenario not yet released?

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

The answer is definitely not!

Not only can you not run them both on one HANA, but even if you could you would still need to run extractors to take data out of the ERP data model and load it into the data models generated by BW. We are a long way from creating the ultimate vision of both running on the same tables in the same database. As Lars (I think) mentioned, BW is intended to be an Enterprise Data Warehouse application, not a subject or vendor specific data mart, so there are a lot of questions to answer before we decide it would be a good idea to use the same instance of any DBMS for it and to run your mission critical operational systems. We will get there, but we have a ways to go.

[former_member184768 · Accepted solution]

A data Warehousing application is by definition an application which

• Enterprise wide data storage from Multiple source systems
• Provides reporting and data analysis capability
• Provides reporting capabilities for Historical data
• Has source data coming from OLTP / Transactional applications.

With HANA as a database / appliance

• I can source data from ERP from "ERP schema" as well as no-SAP data into application schemas.
• HANA information models can provide the reporting and data analysis capabilties
• Columnal storage and compression can enable the historical data storage for reporting and analysis capabilities
• With In-memory and MPP architecture, the need for aggregated data for reporting is no longer there. Also the READ and WRITE operations are much faster in HANA due to Delta / Main storage concept, reducing the gap between OLTP nature of data (faster writes) with DW nature (faster reads).

So, why not have the single source of data with ERP on HANA and BW on HANA merged together.

Regards,

Ravi

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hello Brian,

thanks a lot for the clarification!

I would not be surprised to hear in the future that for some ERP data the data loading could be eliminated and BW is reporting on active ERP data. If I remember correctly no one less than Hasso Plattner aspires such goals, but I understand this is not the current focus. Let's first make ERP on HANA a success on its own.

Regards,

Mark

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Right on Mark! Keep in mind that for Hasso's vision, all the data that you need for you EDW comes from SAP ERP, not at all a realistic scenario. We will get to something close, the main objective being the reduction of redundancy and the elimination of latency, but the physical arcitecture will be a bit more complex than just reporting on the ERP tables (which is or will be available through the Suite offering SHAF (I forget exactly what it stands for, but it mainly adresses operational reporting needs. Let me know if you need more informatino on this).

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Ravi,

I agree wit much of what you say here, but it is a very incomplete definitoin of an Enterprise Data Warehouse. You talk about what is expected of a DBMS, but ignore the many other components of an EDW application. With BW on HANA there are no aggregates created. I could spend hours discussing the various components, process, features, and capabilities that are involved, but will not do so here. If you would like to have those discussions I am very happy to have a call with you and anyone else who would like to participate. ust set up a meeting if you are interested.

Thanks,

Brian

[former_member184768 · Accepted solution]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you. I fully understand and appreciate the maturity of the EDW tool like BW and understand that it will not be very simple to have all the EDW features in HANA soon. Some of the interactions I had with SAP (like TechEd) mentioned that there is a vision to have as many BW features in HANA. It is a long way to go, but I am sure SAP will reach there.

The company which built such a wonderful EDW platform like BW, will surely achieve the end goad.

I have my complete faith in SAP and just wish that it happens soon.

On the lighter note, I liked what Mark said, " After all, it is not our problem how that has to be implemented in SAP code... "

Is it possible for SAP to setup a Webinar to provide details on what should be expected from ERP on HANA, what are the business cases, features etc. I am sure it will help a lot of us.

Thanks for your valuable comments.

And thanks Mark for bringing up such an important topic.

Regards,

Ravi

[lbreddemann · Accepted solution]

Mark Foerster wrote:
 Let's first make ERP on HANA a success on its own.

Spot on!

I really agree with taking one step after the other.

At the moment I see a lot of colleagues, partners and customers struggling with the new requirements that they now have to fulfill: SQL and relational database design and programming, code-push down (layered software architecture), performance management, DBMS core technology are just a few buzz topics here.

Each of them is difficult on its own, but combined into such a large context like "ERP on HANA + removal of data loads + generation of new usage opportunities + ..." it's likely to be too much to approach at once.

Well, at least I'd go step by step here...

- Lars

[JohnL]

I know this is an older post but please see this document for a better understanding of this:

[Raja]

Hi All,

This discussion is quite old. I wanted to know if there is any change regarding this?

Is it still valid that Customer cannot have BW and ERP in same HANA box?

Regards,

Raja

[Former Member]

Hi Raja:

SAP note 1826100 contains the latest status.  It is still valid that it is not supported by SAP to run BW and ERP in the same production SAP HANA DB.

However, we plan to introduce a capability with SPS09 called "Multiple Databases" which will provide the ability to deploy scenarios such as this on the same SAP HANA system. With Multi-DB, we plan that you will be able to run ERP in one "tenant DB" and BW in another "tenant DB" inside the same SAP HANA DBMS.

Best Regards -

Ron Silberstein

SAP HANA Product Management

[former_member195748]

Hi Ronald,

I am struglling to find answer to a question.

Is it possible to run two BW servers on single HANA DB, accoriding to note - 0001666670, its not possible,

Have you come accross any such scenario.

If this is not possible, then what can be  the best possible approach.( possiblly merge two systems).

Alternatively, Can i divide my HANA DB into 2 VMWare and then run two productive BW servers on it. Is this possible. This will be a less costleier approach than bying a new HANA DB for another BW server.

Regards,

Vivek

[Former Member]

Dear all,

At least, with SPS09, SAP introduces the multi-tenant HANA DB and so, we can now, on a same appliance, put 1 HANA instance running multiple tenant-DB (ECC, BI, SRM...), each of them keeping separate applicative data.

This configuration can also be put upon multiple hosts.

As always with HANA, sizing will do the trick.

As well, it's now possible to query multiple tenant-DB with a joint SQL statement.

[Former Member]

Hi,

Please have a look on these links:

http://scn.sap.com/blogs/mj/2013/01/16/introduction-to-sap-hana-analytics-foundation-for-business-su...

http://help.sap.com/hba

SHAF is the End of ETL..

[Former Member]

I believe your last comment was in jest, but just in case, SHAF is intended for operational reporting on a single system only. All data warehouse scenarios are still valid and important, and are addressed through solutions like BW on HANA. These scenarios do, and will continue to rely on the ETL or ELT functionality. Anyone interested in discussing this concept further is welcome to contact me and I will set up a one on one, or group call.

Thanks,

Brian

[former_member184768]

Hi Brian,

It would be a great idea to have a webinar to clarify all the doubts around this topic. It has generated a lot of curiosity and there could be a gap in understanding and expectations.

I would really like to request for a webinar from SAP to explain the concept in details and clear the air around it.

Thanks and regards,

Ravi

[Former Member]

How about running BW and ERP on the same HANA box/server, just each a different 'partition' (by lack of a better word)? Do we need a landscape of multiple HANA instances, or can we share the db space on one machine? A bit like a C:/ and D:/ drive on your PC. Same drive, different content. Can you even add a 3rd 'partition' for non-SAP data?

Apologies if I'm not making any sense...

Ed

[Former Member]

@Ed, there are two theoretical possibilities:

1. MCOD: Here you have two schemas inside the HANA database. This is not supported (yet), for details see note 1661202.

2. Consolidation: Here you install two HANA (software) instances on one HANA (hardware) appliance. This is currently only supported for non-productive systems. See note 1681092.

Regards,

Mark

[Former Member]

Cool. Thanks for that Mark.

[Former Member]

Hi Ed,

Can you explain to me why you would want to do this? Is it due to the cost of the hardware?, the cost of setup and maintenance?, something else? It would be very helpful for SAP if you could tell us wwhat you want to achieve by running both on one appliance, then we can work on the best way to provide it.

Thanks,

Brian

[Former Member]

Hi Brian,

Management is still worried about the costs and the complexity. We will have a meeting with our SAP acccount manager soon about our options though. This post on the forum is just my own curiosity. We have a large DWH running on Oracle for reporting on non-SAP data from legacy systems, we have BW for reporting SAP data and of course SAP ECC itself. Having the possibility of ECC on HANA now is wonderful news, but do we need even so many HANA appliances (one for ECC, one for BW, one for non-SAP, etc.), or are there consolidation options?

Thanks,

E

[Former Member]

Hello Ed,

separating the HANA instances for BW and ERP does make sense. HANA is still a brand new product. So I would not run mission critical software like ERP together with (typically) not-so mission critical software like BW on the same HANA appliance yet, even if this were supported by SAP.

However, there are some use cases in note 1661202 what can be run together with SAP BW in one HANA appliance.

Regards,

Mark

[lbreddemann]

Hi Mark,

I can't really comment on your main question (sorry), but the assumption that all data loads to BW will be obsolete in that scenario is IMHO not correct.

BW is not just a reporting tool, but first and foremost a data warehouse.

It keeps your historic data.

It combines and cleans data from different sources.

It provides uniform access structures to diverse types of data.

To me, that's not something that would change because of having the option to run queries faster.

- Lars

[Former Member]

Hello Lars,

thanks for the answer. It is strange that you cannot answer my question, I think potential ERP on HANA customers will have exactly this question for SAP. I expect a negative answer like "ERP and BW will remain separated for the time being", but the old roadmap was definitely about ERP+BW in one HANA database. Maybe not replacing all ERP -> BW dataloads but making as many dataloads obsolete as possible.

Regards,

Mark

[former_member184768]

I agree with Mark. In my opinion, I'd expect the data loads from BW to be obsolete. I wish there should be BW objects (structures) based on ERP tables with the feature of data loading (if required) to additional BW objects (DSOs) with some business logic / derivations. The BW structures can provide me currency conversion / Unit conversion.

But the base tables should from ERP should be available for reporting if required.

Why do I need to store the historical data in BW, if the same data can also be stored in ERP. I can have the transactional table partitioned with time and move the older data to sort of "Not active" data storage and keep only the reporting relavant data in the "Active" memory storage.

Regarding combining the Non-SAP data, I wish to use Standalone HANA options and build HANA Information models based on the ERP data and Non-SAP data.

The HANA information models with ERP and Non-SAP data can then provide the unified view to any reporting tool..

OR am I wishing for too much here.. 🙂

Regards,

Ravi

[Former Member]

OR am I wishing for too much here.. 🙂

No, you are not! Please, everyone who would like to have BW data loads eliminated press "Like" on Ravi's post! After all, it is not our problem how that has to be implemented in SAP code...

[lbreddemann]

Mark Foerster wrote:
Hello Lars,
thanks for the answer. It is strange that you cannot answer my question, 

Easy to answer: when I wrote my reply I just hadn't had any time to check the current release notes/limitations.

It's not that I wasn't allowed or didn't want to answer...