Experiences with Authorized Training Centers

[Former Member]

As many of you know, SAP has a different path for folks to pursue certification which is roughly regional. Outside of the (primarily) Asia Pacific region, most training is delivered by SAP itself. Certification is typically done by scheduling an exam through SAP's exam partner, Pearson Vue.

In most of the Asia Pacific region (Asia Pacific, Brazil, Mexico, did I miss any?), however, training is delivered through Authorized Training Partners and the exam can only be taken easily if you've taken your training from an ATC. (There is a long, convoluted, painful process by which you can get sponsored by an Authorized Implementation Partner or customer as long as you've been working with them for a significant time, but the only description I can use to describe this process in mixed company is "arduous". Effectively, in those parts of the world, take training through the ATC or don't get certified.)

Now, from all of the ATC web sites that I've checked, for the most part they are clear in saying that you should not undergo the training for the purposes of certification unless you've already worked on the software for at least 1 year but preferably more. What we hear from folks on the message boards, however, is that the recruiters from these ATCs generally look for students fresh from school and promise the moon and stars upon successful matriculation and certification. Very often these stories end with the person out of work for a year or more after they've been certified.

I would like to collect all stories, good and bad, from folks who have used ATCs to get trained and/or certified. I'm not looking for specific names of ATCs or recommendations or warnings, per se, just trying to collect data so that folks can get a good idea of what circumstances are best for success with an ATC and under which circumstances ATCs are a waste of time and money.

So... if you have used an ATC, please provide the following information:  (Note: if you used a NON-authorized company for training, please hold off. I'll post another discussion for that group of folks.)

Experience before you began

How would you catagorize yourself when you entered?

     Fresher (no domain and no/limited SAP experience)

     domain experienced (X years domain exp, but no SAP exp)

     SAP Experienced (X years domain including Y years SAP experience)

     other

Job first or Training first?

Did you already have a job using SAP before attending ATC?

     Yes - had SAP job first

          Did your job pay for your training?

          Were you hoping to go back to the same job or did you take the training in order to get a better job/promotion at current job?

     No - training came first

          Did you eventually get a job after training with ATC?

               If yes, how long did your job search take?

               Did the ATC help you find a job or did you find it on your own?

Certification result

     Did you get your certification after attending ATC?

     Do you feel that the certification played a significant role in getting a job?

          Yes

          No

               If not, was anything else as important/more important (school degree, work experience, etc)

Recommendations/comments

If someone you loved was considering a career in SAP, would you recommend that they follow the same path that you took?

Is there anything else about the experience that you'd like someone to understand?

I hope this generates some useful data and some interesting conversations! 

As an example, if the training I received at SAP had instead been given by an ATC, my summary would be as follows:

Thomas Dulaney

     Domain experienced (4 years IT, no SAP)

     Job first, training paid for by job, went back to same job after training

     Got certified, Certification did not help me get job since already had job going in based on my prior non-SAP work experience'

     I would absolutely recommend a loved one follow the same path if it was available.

     Even though it didn't help me get a job, per se, I think the training I received was the foundation for my career!

Best regards,

  --Tom

[former_member182098]

I have lavishly spent around £40,000, for SAP Trainings, Certifications, CDs, Books, Seminars and TechEds, what not, everything for SAP Every time, I went with a killer instinct to achieve something. Nowadays, top corporate consulting firms still reluctant spend a penny for the training, I am wondering how I have spent that much.

I believe I am better placed to answer some of your questions.

Before going for SAP Certification, I have had good end user experience and part of implementation team from business side. By that time I was a Management Accountant from reputed Professional Body and semi qualified Company Secretary. At least I am well versed from an end user perspective. The first time I have taken big loan by pledging all my gold and investments (everything went to bank's kitty) went for SAP FICO training at an ATC in India. I should say the course quality is reasonably OK. But, actual curriculum is 25 days but they have completed in 17 days. They have saved 8 days or training cost from each consultant. But, I passed with flying colours. At this point, I should say, this Certification has helped me to jump into consulting area.

After few years I went for SEM-BPS/CPM and SEM-BCS, with two different ATC by taking a huge personal loan.  SEM-BPS/CPM training could be most pathetic training I ever had in my life. The facilities are very poor, the center staff highly unprofessional, server connection amazingly poor and the trainers are substantially sub-standard, still, everybody was paying hefty of amounts. All the participants were left with crying. The certification materials supplied by all of these ATC are cheap photostat copies. Some of the graphs are not visible. The trainers are just reading the material, nothing else. They do not even know 10% of what we knew. I still wonder why SAP Education cannot conduct a quality audit on these ATC. SEM-BCS training with another ATC is fairly OK, but most of the time there is no server connection. Luckily, I passed SEM-BPS/CPM.

Then I did my BW Certification on my own preparation and guidance from my friends. SAP India has weird rules, so, I could not write my BW Certification. I had to fly from India to Malaysia SAP to write my BW Certification. Both are concerns of SAP within APAC region, but different rules. Sometimes, talking with some of those people is alarmingly frustrating.

Later, I passed another three certification on my own preparation and money. Every time my employers say, this year budgets are frozen, next year we will have ample budgets. But, that next is a dream and will never come

If somebody want to follow the path that I have crossed, definitely, they should have a very big and bold heart. I am not exaggerating myself, but, I have not seen a single person in my entire life like me. Probably, I do not think I will ever see. I never regretted what I have spent, still my learning spree is on and enjoying thoroughly.

Thanks and Regards,

Ravi

[Former Member]

Hello Thomas,

interesting project that you´re pushing but I´d ask also if we really need the certification. This is to me nothing else but a trick from SAP for making money, since the certification exam has a price. The certification is not a garanty that:

1. someone is an expert in SAP (whatever the specialization)
2. he/she gets a job
3. he/she can deliver real solutions to the client
4. can understand what the client needs and therefore support the client

I have 14 years of experience in SAP (as an ABAP developer) and have no certification and do not pretend to get one; I am also an independent consultant since 6 years and so far no one has ever asked me whether I am certified; therefore, it has never been a condition for getting a job. On the contrary, I notice that the certified programmers and consultants (?) have no practical experience when they come to me. I´ve had to train them based on my experience and knowledge because they know just a little, but because they´re certified the boss tries to sell them as "a highly capable, experienced consultant" (just to make money, of course).

Let´s make it short about the process of certification:

1. you go to SAP or to an authorized business partner on the date and time for the certification exam
2. you sit in from of a computer
3. when the moderator says "go", then you start your exam
4. you have to answer 80 to 100 questions (which means only theory)
5. if you get the minimal score, then you´re now a "certified consultant or programmer"
6. in the case of ABAP programmers, you do not write a single line of code

I wonder if the above means quality (especially point 6) in the service that the certified consultant or programmer will, after the day of the exam, deliver to the client.

2 days ago I had an enterview at VW Financial Services at the headquarters in Germany for a possible project for me. It was a group of 6 enterviewers "against" me and they asked many questions about my previous projects, technical knowledge, experience, way of working, tools for documenting programmes, processes, etc. etc. and no one came to the idea for asking about a certification.

I think that a very well-trained, experienced consultant or programmer is more important to any company in this world than a certification and here we have an additional problem: companies do not want to spend money in training for the employees (it is considered an unnecesary cost) and students do not have money for paying for a training. It is not a surprise to find everywhere in the internet and in this site postings requesting training materials for self-study. The quality of learning and the quality of the future employee in his/her daily work leaves so much to wish for.

[Former Member]

My intent with this was not to debate the value of certification, but rather to gather data. We see many questions from folks who are being told by recruiters for institutes that all they need is to get certified in SAP to get a job. We also see stories from folks who paid their money, took the training, got the certification, then took over 1 year to find any work.

My goal is to gather stories from folks who have attended institutes and gather real empirical data as to whether this is a strategy that in general leads to success or to loss of money and extended periods of joblessness.

The eventual goal is map out the path with the greatest probability for success for anyone who is interested in a career in SAP with respect to the variables: time, expense, and outcome.

I collected a number of stories from folks who are currently working in the SAP field.

• How did you get your start in SAP?
• Storytime! How did you get your start in SAP?

Very few of the folks listed an institute as being on their path to success. Since so many of the questions in this forum and the career forum originate from freshers who are being told that Institute Certification is the path to success, I wanted to specifically address that audience's concerns. Unfortunately, no one has stepped forward so far. Hopefully soon. Thanks for your comments!

Best regards,

  --Tom

[Former Member]

hi,

it seems that this posting is only for us since no one is participating. My idea was to tell not only that the certification is no garanty for a good, well-paid job (or very simple: a job) but that a well-trained consultant or programmer have better chances in the job market that a certified fresher.

No institute, academy or university (especially those which charge money) will ever tell the future students the truth: that the job market is becomming miserable every day everywhere. Here in Germany jobs are being moved to east Europe because of lower salaries or to India and China where the capitalists can throw a peace of bread to the ground for their workers to eat and then they tell you that we must be very productive. This leads to unemployement here and slavery in India and China ... but no capitalist will ever talk about it.

From indian ex-colleagues and members in this site I heard/read that the institutions promise a lot before you start your carreer, especially help for finding a job. Once you finish your studies promises are forgotten or they tell you that there are currently no job offers in their job database. This is logical because the institutions were founded to make money, so they need students that are able to pay, so any trick is wellcome.

[nikhil_bengeri]

Hello Tom n Jorge,

I know I'm just a drop of water in this big ocean, but I just want to add a very small exp of mine here. I have close to about 3 yrs of SAP PM exp as a 'power user' in a well known firm here in India. I'm seriously looking out for a career in SAP. But every time I apply for a job here, my application is with-held. All things come and stand at just one point- no certification. This actually hinders my ability to even think am I really worst or better than a certified consultant, although I have some real SAP PM exp.

PS: Jorge, Ill take a leaf out of your book and progress that life exist beyond certification.

And Tom,

Looking forward to next article for "Experiences with Un-Authorized Training Centers'

[Former Member]

As a power user, I hope you have good contact with the support team. Your best chance is to use those connections to try to get transferred to the support team yourself.  Once you have some hands-on configuration experience, your path will get much easier. As a power user, you should be participating in gap analysis and be specifying requirements for gaps, working closely with the support team. You should be sure to explain this experience in your cover letter to help potential employers recognise the depth of your involvement. Also, I recommend that if you are changing jobs, you apply for support team positions and not consulting positions until after you've had some configuration experience. You are more likely to find a company willing to give you a shot at a junior role in configuration with your power user experience vs. a consulting company which will almost certainly not evaluate your resume until after you have some hands on configuration experience.

I can't give you an estimated time of arrival for the Un-Authorized Training center article just yet as my muse hasn't struck me on that one recently. Hopefully soon. Thanks for the comments and I hope this has been helpful!

Best regards,

  --Tom

[nikhil_bengeri]

Thanks for the valuable suggestions Thomas.