manual samples during GRN

[Former Member]

Dear QM Gurus,

Greetings of the day,

One of my client having the requirement like this.

He is going to procure Metal plates in Tonnes.Base UOM is KG.While receiving plates he dont know how many plates will be sent by Vendor per Tonne (For example sometimes 50 plates or sometimes 60 plates depending on length and width of plate which is available with vendor).

But after receiving the plates stock posted to Quality stock.Manufacturer number,serial number will be available on each plate. Quality inspector should record

those manufacturer and serial numbers of each plate while doing multiple results recording.

Can somebody enlighten me which sampling procedure i have to select as i have to record multiple results (means 100%inspection with changable sampling size).

2) Can i select  manual sample calculation check box along with insp. by task list  in material master for the above requirement in order to change my no.of samples.Will it work?

Valuable suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks in Advance

LAXMAN

[former_member207800]

Why don't you add more inspection characteristic in plan?

For example, additional inspection after rejection.. This is very simple way.

And if you want to keep result recordings with serial number wise, you have to use 100% sample and single result.

Regards, DoWook KIM.

[krishnamurty_madduri]

Hi,

As I understand from the mail trail:  your requirement is:

1. To record results for each Plate with Serial No.on it.

2. Unfortunately, the plate size is not standard.

3. Probably... you want to record results for all plates (or.. is it only for the number or sample plates ?)

In such situations: request you to try the following:

1. See.. if you can initiate storage unit concept (Pallets) (in WH module) and see.. if you can generate Inspection lot per storage unit. Once you get inspection lots per each storage unit (here, plate) you can record the results for all plates.

However, this will increase your work. Based on the criticality, you decide.

2. You can go for a Physical Sample Drawing procedure (QPV2) and create Physical Sample, using a sampling scheme, with a formula like: Sq. root of n+1. This would create the number of Physical samples required. As suggested by Firefighter, all these samples would be just primary samples.

Another important thing is: You need to go for Individual results rather than summarized results for Results Recording. That would capture results for each plate and you can capture the serial number of the plate too.

Regards,

KrishnaM

[Former Member]

Dear All,

Thank you very much for all your inputs,

My requirement is that,

Number of samples should be equal to no of containers (nothing but no. of plates).

(Where as Base UOM for material is TONNE).

For this, I have created sample drawing procedure as suggested by FF by putting formula P2.

And sampling procedure is fixed sample with 1 kg as base qty.

But still i can able to record only one result (value in inspect field is 1.) I need my no. of containers (say for example 10 as i have entered in GRN) should be reflect in this inspect field. Then only i can able to record 10 results.

How can we achieve this.

Pls help me

Quick replies are highly appreciated.

Thanks in adv.

LAX

[Former Member]

Dear gurus,

Awaiting for your valuable suggestions

Thanks in adv,

LAX

[krishnamurty_madduri]

Hi,

You need to go for Individual Results Recording for all the sampled plates since, you want to record results for all the sample(d) plates. If you want it for all plates, you have to go for 100% sampling.

The number of contaniers has only a relation for sample drawing. Hence, please understand that this parameter (no. of containers) can't be taken for Results Recording - while your UOM is in Kgs.

If you want to record results only for the number of plates sampled, you need to standardize the plate size so that, when you record results it would record the results per plate. You can go further, if you go to Serial numbers profile for the plates.

Regards,

KrishnaM

[krishnamurty_madduri]

Hi,

You need to go for Individual Results Recording for all the sampled plates since, you want to record results for all the sample(d) plates. If you want it for all plates, you have to go for 100% sampling.

The number of contaniers has only a relation for sample drawing. Hence, please understand that this parameter (no. of containers) can't be taken for Results Recording - while your UOM is in Kgs.

If you want to record results only for the number of plates sampled, you need to standardize the plate size so that, when you record results it would record the results per plate. You can go further, if you go to Serial numbers profile for the plates.

Regards,

KrishnaM

[Former Member]

Dear KM,

Thank you for your suggestions.

1) Yes, I am using single result in my MICs as well as in my plan.

2) I am using 100% inspection. But how can I able to  get the no.of results
(equal to my number of plates) if my inspection lot qty is in KG and system is giving me only one sample  for result recording because no conversion of BUOM (KG) into inspection sample unit (NO).

Is there any sampling procedure that i can able to change my sample qty manually evenafter creation of lot and before results recording so that i can change my sample qty and do the results recording for no of plates received (No of plates are nothing but No.of containers).

Awaiting for your inputs.

hanks in Adv.

LAX

[former_member42743]

Why isn't your inspection plan in KG's?  The number of results should be determined by the number of containers.  You enter the number of containers at GR. 

Why do you need to convert to EA to start with?

FF

[Former Member]

Hi Fire Fighter,

Thank you for your input.

Fire Fighter wrote:
Why isn't your inspection plan in KG's?  The number of results should be determined by the number of containers.  You enter the number of containers at GR.  
Why do you need to convert to EA to start with?
FF

I could not define my plan in NO because conversion from KG to NO is not possible in my case as no standared size for plate/s.

You suggested that no.of containers should give no.of results.How?

If it works,that fulfil my requirement.

Pls suggest which sqampling procedure i have to select.Earlier u suggested that for fixed sampling procedure with base sample qty is 1.I have tried.But i did not able to record multiple results.

Awaiting for your inputs.

Thanks in avd.

LAX.

[former_member42743]

You must of not read my last reply closely.  Why can't you keep your inspection plan in KG?  The sample drawing procedure should be based on number of containers entered in the GR.  This would be like ordering drummed, slurries or concentrates, you order in KG but the number of drums might differ based on actual concentration or density of material.  So you can't have a straight conversion from KG to drum.  Inspection is done based on number of drums you receive.  Sample size is usually set at fixed smaple size of one which shows as 1kg per drum basically.  But since they usually take a small smoke from each drum, they don't really track sample size with regard to inventory anyway.

In your case it is similar.  You order in KG's but don't know how many plates you actually get.  Set up the sample drawing procedure to calculate sample size based on containers received.  Your inspection plan should be in KG's.  Your sampling procedure should be a fixed sample size of 1.  So if you receive 50 plates, you sampling drawing procedue will calculate 50 samples, combined with the sampling procedure your lot sample size will be 50 KG's.  You should have the ability to record 50 results. 

I doubt you are destroying any of these plates during inspection so there is no need to have a sample qty calculated for sample usage or retains.

FF

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

Could pls suggest how to create Sample drawing procedure(which formula i have to use) for getting no.of containers as no.of units to be inspected.

awaiting for ur reply

Thanks in Adv.

LAX

[former_member42743]

I already did in two of my previous replies.  The formula is simply P2.

FF

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

I have created sample drawing procedure.While defining inspection plan i tried to give this sampling drawing procedure in Plan header data.But system is not allowing me to enter sample drawing procedure.Following error occurred.

Create an inspection point of the type "Physical sample"

Message no. QP281

Diagnosis

You made an entry in the field for the "Sample-drawing procedure," but you did not specify an inspection point (user-field combination). You can only use a sample-drawing procedure in conjunction with inspection points.

Procedure

Record an inspection point of the type "physical sample" or delete the entry in the field for the "Sample-drawing procedure."

Is it required to define inspection point? If so, which type of inspection point (free inspection point/any other)

Pls suggest.

thanks in adv.

LAX

[former_member42743]

Select physical sample for now.  It should already be available.

FF

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

I have defined sampling drawing procedure using formula P2.

Defined sampling procedure with

sampling type Fixed sample,

Valuation Manual,

In Inspection points tab,I have selected Sample management radio button ,

sample size is 1.

Is it correct? (pls confirm)

Which radio button i have to select either Sample managemen or Free Inspection points.

What i observed is

I did GR for 1500 kg and entered no. of containers (nothing but no.of plates) as 5.I gor the Inspection lot with status CRTD,PASG,SPRQ.Already i have defined inspection plan.Systen showing group and counter numbers of the plan.No.of containers are there in inspection lot.I click on Sample icon in sample tab.System is giving message as no physical samples are assigned.

I tried to save the inspection lot.Not able to get status REL.

Following message occurred.

Sample determination: No sample drawing item found

Message no. QY304

Diagnosis

The system could not find a suitable sample-drawing item in the sample-drawing procedure.

This may be due to the following reasons:

• If you set the indicator in the header of the sample-drawing procedure to calculate the physical samples on the basis of lot containers:

a) The system could not find an appropriate sample-drawing item that corresponds to the lot container in the inspection lot.

b) The system could not find a sample-drawing item for which the field Lot container is empty.

• If you did not set this indicator, the system did not find a sample-drawing item for which the field Lot container is empty.

System Response

The system could not find a sample-drawing item to use to determine the physical samples.

Procedure

Check the data in the sample-drawing items of the sample-drawing procedure for completeness; create the sample drawing items that are missing.

Pls suggest which parameters i have to select while defining sampling procedure.

thanks in adv.

LAX

[former_member42743]

In the sample drawing procedure did you define a value in the "Lot container" field?  This should match what you are enterring as GR containers.  Proabably an EA but i'm not sure.

FF

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

I already entered value in lot container field same as no.of containers (NO in my case).

I have selected SAMPLE MANAGEMENT radio button while defining sampling procedure using QDV1.

Is it correct or should  i select FREE INSPECTION radio button .Pls let me know which is correct.

I defined using sample management radio button.Did GR.Inspection lot generated.

While doing results recording systen is asking for sample.I click F4 in that sample field, system showing no.of inspection points equal to my no.of containers..

1) Each time i have to select one inspection point and to enter result against that inspection point.

Is it correct?

2) Or system have to show all lines once i click on SINGLE val. TREE. So that  I can enter all values at a time instead of selecting each inspection point and entering results.

If we can get 2 nd option it is much better.Is it possible. Pls suggest.

Thanks in adv

LAX

[former_member42743]

Try recording through transaction QE71.  You  should find it easier to recrod resutls for multiple inspection points.

FF

[Former Member]

Sampling procedure is for acceptance sampling. Acceptance sampling is you accept whole lot based on results of a smaller sample. Example you accept whole lot based on acceptance/ rejection number for say 5 plates.

If you need to record results for each plate. you should not use acceptance sampling. you can try one of the following options.

1, Create inspection points - One inspection point for each plate or

2. Activate serial numbers in Inspection. Each plate will have a unique serial number. You record results for each one.

If you need additional info on any of these options let me know.

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

Thank you very much for your inputs,

As u suggest i have created sampling drawing procedure,sampling procedure and defined inspection plan.Did GR for that particular material.System generated no.of inspection points which r equal to no.of containers.

But while doing Results recording for a particular inspection point following error is occurred.

No selected set exists for the inspection point 200 or plant 2050

Message no. QT006

Diagnosis

An inspection point (wire basket, equipment, physical sample, etc.) is valuated after all characteristics have been closed. You can store a proposal in Customizing for this purpose in two places:

• At the inspection point level

• At the plant level

If a proposal for an acceptance or rejection is stored at the inspection point level, the system uses this proposal. Otherwise, the system uses the selected set in the table for QM plant settings.

In this particular case, a proposal is neither available for the inspection point (200) nor the plant (2050).

Procedure

Maintain the selected set for the inspection point or plant settings.

Where i need to define selected sets and how to assign for inspection points.

Pls suggest. This is for incoming material inspection.

Thanks in adv.

LAX

[former_member42743]

Create a selected set. Usually these are simply a Pass/Fail selected set.  Create it in just one plant, usually a master data plant.  In config, go to the inspection point config area and on the valuation tab enter the selected set info for the selected set you just created.

Quality Management-->Quality Planning-->Inspection Planning-->General-->Define Identifier for Inspection Points

Select identifier 200, clcik on valuation tab, enter selected set data.

If you want the inspection point automatically valuated, enter in the default codes to be used here as well.  Then in the inspection plan, go to the operation header and scroll down to the QM data.  In the field inspection point completion select automatic valuation.

FF

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

Can't i use selected set which was defined for my catalog 1 which is nothing but char.attributes.

I could not able to enter that selected set  in valuation tab of inspection points data.

Which catalog i have to select while defining selected set for inspection points.

Pls suggest.

Thanks in adv

LAX

[Former Member]

Dear all,

Awaiting for ur inputs

Thanks in adv

LAX

[former_member42743]

No...the IP selected set is a UD selected set. Catalog 3.  Not 1.

FF

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

Thank you very much for your inputs.

I have created selected set and assign for inspection point.

But system is generating only one inspection point even though i entered 5 no. of containers.Somewhere i did wrong.Pls suggest.

My plan contains two operations contains 1 MIC for each operation I need to check two MICs for all samples.But system generates only one sample.

Pls suggest.

Thanks in adv.

LAX

[former_member42743]

You sadi you had the right number of samples before.  What did you change?  Adding the selected set for valuation would not have changed anything relate to teh number of sampes.

This is getting beyond this thread.

FF

[Former Member]

Dear FF,

Is there any effect of number range of physical samples which i changed.This is the only change i made.

Pls suggest.

Thanks in adv

LAX

[former_member42743]

No. It should not have had an affect.  If it was working before, why did you chagne the number range anyway?

FF

[former_member42743]

Two options that I see.

You can use manual sampling procedure as you indicated.

Another possibilty might be to use "No. of containers".  At GR you require the number of containers to be inputted.  This would be for you, the number of plates received.

Then do the sampling based on number of containers.  You will have to use a sample drawing procedure for this and use physical samples for this.

FF

[Former Member]

Hi FF,

Appreciating your quick reply and thank you,

Pls suggest what sampling procedure i have to define, so that my inspection lot should be same as number of plates entered as in GRN.

Ultimately i should be able to record my serial number in insp. unit no field after selecting the acc. code for each plate.

Thanks in adv

LAX

[former_member42743]

Your sampling procedure should be a fixed sample of one since we are talking about plates.  Your sampling drawing procedure should be a simple one as well.  All y ou should need is a primary sample using a formula of P2.  Assign the sample drawing procedure in the header of your plan and your sample procedure to the characteristics. 

[Former Member]

Your sampling procedure should be a fixed sample of one since we are talking about plates.  Your sampling drawing procedure should be a simple one as well.  All y ou should need is a primary sample using a formula of P2.  Assign the sample drawing procedure in the header of your plan and your sample procedure to the characteristics. 

Dear Fire Fighter,

Thank you very much for your Inputs,

Could you pls explain in detail about the sentence All y ou should need is a primary sample using a formula of P2

I did following exercise.

2) I have created one sampling procedure, fixed sample with qty 1 using QDV1.

But while defining inspection plan i did'nt find this sampling procedure in sampling drawing procedure field (Is this field different? if it is different how to create sample drawing procedure).

But I was able to assign my sampling procedure in sample tab of inspection characterstics tab of inspection plan.

Later I did GR for 1000 kg. I have entered 15 pc (Number of pieces) in number of containers field. while doing GR.I can able to see number of plates in my inspection lot (1000 kg quantity) in no.of containers field.

While doing results recording i am not able to record more than 1.(I think becoz i defined sample qty as 1 in sampling procedure).

But i want to record Serial number (provided by vendor) of each plate while doing results recording against one characteristic (for example against  MIC which is  S.NO) .

Will it possible using fixed sample with sample qty 1.Pls suggest.

Early inputs will be highly appreciated.

Pls

Thanks in adv.

LAX

[krishnamurty_madduri]

Hi,

As I understand from the mail trail:  your requirement is:

1. To record results for each Plate with Serial No.on it.

2. Unfortunately, the plate size is not standard.

3. Probably... you want to record results for all plates (or.. is it only for the number or sample plates ?)

In such situations: request you to try the following:

1. See.. if you can initiate storage unit concept (Pallets) (in WH module) and see.. if you can generate Inspection lot per storage unit. Once you get inspection lots per each storage unit (here, plate) you can record the results for all plates.

However, this will increase your work. Based on the criticality, you decide.

2. You can go for a Physical Sample Drawing procedure (QPV2) and create Physical Sample, using a sampling scheme, with a formula like: Sq. root of n+1. This would create the number of Physical samples required. As suggested by Firefighter, all these samples would be just primary samples.

Another important thing is: You need to go for Individual results rather than summarized results for Results Recording. That would capture results for each plate and you can capture the serial number of the plate too.

Regards,

KrishnaM

[former_member42743]

Yes, sampling procedure and sample drawing procedure are two different thing.

Sample drawing procedure is created using transaction QPV2. In that transaction you will see a tab for primary sample with a formula field.  In the formula field enter P2.

Assign this procedure in the inspection plan header.

It sounds like your sampling procedure is already OK.

FF

[Former Member]

Any suggestions please

Thanks in adv

LAXMAN