SAP First to Offer Fully-Compliant Java EE 5 Application Server ...

[Former Member]

Hello,

saw this in a SAP newsletter I received by mail. Has anybody already played with this? Is it still based on eclipse 2.1, still no way to plug in your own ant build files, hibernate not plugged in from the beginning? The article from SAP does'nt say a word about that. So I'm sceptical ...

Cheers, Oliver

[Former Member]

Georgi:

"That allows you to separate business logic from the purely technical persistency logic. If this transparency is not important for you, of course it makes sense to try another approach."

Separation of concerns can be done with plain Java objects. Neither EJBs not hibernate is needed. Trying to tell me that EJBs are needed for transparency is tentative. That is the tone I don't like.

"If you don’t feel like discussing the topic with me I will respect your decision. I don’t like the tone anyway."

There is no discussion. No matter whatsoever you are always told in this thread to use EJBs. Now you are telling me that I'm not willing to discuss things. That's really good now.

Benny and others:

People make their decisions what technology/concept they use. It is not your business to convert them to something. People will vote with their feet and you can't fight the masses. So let it be. If you keep doing that you needn't be surprised if you sooner or later get some sarcastic statement.

Regards, Oliver

[Former Member]

Thank you for your posts, mates. It was a nice discussion and I believe we have finished it already.

I am locking it now and I kindly invite you to continue sharing your new experience and thoughts concerning <b>SAP NetWeaver Application Server Java EE 5 Edition</b> in the forum.

Greetings,

Bobby

[Former Member]

That means that SAP must have been silently changing all their eclipse plugins to work with the eclipse 3.2 architecture. That must have been a lot of work. Impressed.

Hibernate 3.2 is JPA compliant as well and it was made by the guys that made hibernate. I wouldn't take anything from the guys that made EJB 2.x then stole the good ideas from hibernate put them into EJB 3.0 and then pretended to be great software developers. That's quite the same as accepting the guys from the Bush administration as world leaders although the only thing they really do is filling their pockets.

EJBs are only needed to defend the need for heavy-weight expensive Application Servers like WebLogig, WebSphere, NetWeaver and others for those companies to make a lot of money. There is no reason you need anything more than a web server - the most popular being Tomcat which is open source and free of charge - with hibernate and maybe Spring.

Cheers, Oliver

[former_member201180]

Hi Oliver,

I wouldn't take that personally the fact that the Hibernate model was adopted in the EJB3.0 specification since Gaving King and the rest of the developers don't seem to be very upset about that. In fact the only guys who could be upset to some extent are those who bet on JDO when it became clear that a serious rewrite of the concept is needed. Nevertheless, the JPA approach is a sort of a compromise that lets you choose which is best for you. Take a look at the Hibernate roadmap and see for yourself how they plan to contribute and even help for the development of the specification - http://www.hibernate.org/357.html#A10.

As far as EJBs applicability is concerned - that is yet another vast topic to discuss. I myself am a big fan of technologies like Hibernate, Spring and Struts. Indeed you can implement a whole lot of applications with these. But to claim that EJBs are totally out of the picture is a too extreme statement in my humble opinion. It sounds almost like it rejects the idea of component based development with business objects. I would say that the problem usually is not the EJBs, but the choice when to apply them. It is more a question of correct design and willingness to invest in reusability and all that attractive stuff that goes along with components.

This is an interesting topic that tends to create long discussions.

[Former Member]

Yeah right. People that chose something else than EJBs are ignorant philondering bumps that aren't even willing to look into EJB... EJBs are mabye sold as business objects but they carry no business logic, they are pure model objects that hold data retrieved from persistence store or saved to it and nothing else.

Anyway, I see no point in discussing things with Russian marketing people from SAP who are only trying to cover the anticipated result.

Cheers, Olli

[former_member201180]

Hi Oliver,

That is definitely not what I wanted to say here. If you read my post again you will note that I am a fan of Hibernate (and not only). So if your assumptions were correct that makes me an “ignorant philandering bump” too, doesn’t it?

Ok, don’t call Entity EJBs business objects, they are model objects. What I said is that it is not that bad to encapsulate the persistence of a model and the model itself in components especially when you have session EJB-based business objects as a front layer. That allows you to separate business logic from the purely technical persistency logic. If this transparency is not important for you, of course it makes sense to try another approach.

By the way, if you see Russian marketing people from SAP who are only trying to cover the anticipated result posting in this topic let me know. I don’t fit in any part of the sentence. Neither does anyone who has posted here so far. And I do hope that we keep it like this.

If you don’t feel like discussing the topic with me I will respect your decision. I don’t like the tone anyway.

[Former Member]

Hi Georgi!

Never mind it.. link removed

Message was edited by: Robin De Silva Jayasinghe

[Vlado]

Hi Olli,

Thank you! That one with the Russian marketing people really made me laugh

btw, this one <a href="http://sdn.idizaai.be/sdn_world/sdn_world.html">here</a> might be helpful in such cases.. or just casting a look at the user's business card.

Cheers,

Vladimir

[Benny]

Dear Oliver,

while I interprete your message more as sarcastic, some people don't and I had complaints about this. I'd like you to better mark your sarcasm by maybe using "" to enclose such comments.

Also, there is some facts you may want to know:

1. The "Russian Marketing People" do live in Bulgaria.

2. The "Russian Marketing People" are all one hundert percent developers - The server is their baby and as it is often with babys, their parents usually are proud about it, which might result in marketing like descriptions...

Nevertheless, you created a new nick name for our SAP labs in Bulgaria

Regards,

Benny

[Vlado]

Hi Oliver,

I really wonder why you would want to integrate hibernate into a Java EE 5 application server? I mean in general, not only SAP NetWeaver AS. The standard persistence and O/R mapping technology for Java EE as well as Java SE is JPA (Java Persistence API), part of EJB 3.0. It incorporates the best ideas from a number of "old" technologies, including hibernate, EJB 2.x, JDO, etc. You can use it in the container, or you can use it standalone, just as you have probably used hibernate. If you are not familiar with JPA and EJB, probably it's a good idea to have a look at the https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/developerareas/java?rid=/webcontent/uuid/28b1ed0e-0d01-0010-c887-a8fdecdb9053">java [original link is broken] [original link is broken] also contains plenty of docs, samples, tutorials on it.

So, why not give it a try and then come back and share your impressions, thoughts, proposals? I'm sure some part of your scepticism will be lost until then

Hope that helps a bit!

Best regards,

Vladimir

[Former Member]

Hi Oliver,

>> Has anybody already played with this?

That's a nice one! I must say donwload statistics show this edition has been downloaded now already >800 times for just a bit more than a week. So, quite some guys are playing around with it.....

>> Is it still based on eclipse 2.1

No, it's based on Eclipse 3.2, includes the WTP 1.5 for Java EE development. Enhanced with SAP editors to add direct support for Java EE 5 development!

For more information, just have a look at https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/developerareas/java?rid=/webcontent/uuid/28b1ed0e-0d01-0010-c887-a8fdecdb9053">java [original link is broken] [original link is broken].

About hibernate - well, Java EE 5 offers JPA, and that is an alternative, isn't it? However, if you are used to hibernate and use it in existing applications that you want to migrate, that should be possible. Just get a bit more specific about what you'd like to do, and I'm sure somebody will answer it here in this forum.

Hope this makes you be a bit more optimistic about it!

Cheers,

Ivo

[Former Member]

Hi Oliver,

No, it's based on eclipse 3.2.

Since eclipse 3.3 is still under development, that seems to be up-to-date. But I think the hibernate is not plugged into the standard eclipse, at least the last time I played with it, which was a very long time ago and maybe I am wrong, so even with a classic eclipse you will have to plug it in.

But since that is eclipse 3.2 you should be able to benefit with the standard eclipse plugin installation which is quite effortless - just simply add a URL. Well, actually I had some hard time until I found out I have to configure the proxy settings since I am behind firewall, but I am not a diligent documentation reader &#61514;

Btw, speaking about persistency layers, at least in my opinion the new EJB 3.0 persistency has some nice features and can be used instead or at least worth a try. For brand new projects of course

HTH

Peter

[Benny]

Hi Oliver,

I did, as I had to for the testing phase befor we shipped the preview.;-)

It carries an eclipse 3.2 and different then in previous generations we do not follow the path of building eclipse into our own platform but buidling our plugins into eclipse. This way we will (and have with the existing ones done already) integrate WTP tools.

Didn't try, but this shoudl make it easy to use ANT also.

We are not so far to ship hibernate as this always involves a lot of legal work for us (yes, even if it is open source!) but we do have descriptions how to integrate hibernate in our migration section. Unfortunately I don't know if that will work with JEE5 server.

Hey development! Here's some way for you guys to show your outstanding commitment on JEE5 again and write a short article on this.

Regards,

Benny