How SAP calculate sample size in presence of sample drawing procedure

[Former Member]

hi

i need to know how SAP calculates the lot's sample size in the presence of sample drawing procedure, and when should i apply sample drawing procedures (sample management) ?

[former_member587434 · Accepted solution]

A sample-drawing procedure contains specific instructions for creating physical samples with respect to a specific inspection lot container type and specific partial-sample numbers in the inspection plan.

In the sample-drawing procedure, we can specify:

Which categories of physical samples must be drawn

How many physical samples must drawn

The size of each physical sample

Whether the drawing of physical samples must be confirmed

I would suggest just refer this [link|http://help.sap.com/saphelp_erp60_sp/helpdata/en/2d/35208b448c11d189420000e829fbbd/frameset.htm] & reply if you need more clarification.

Thanks!!!

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

thanks nihal for ur help...but i still don know how the SAP calculates the sample in the case of applying sample management

for example: if i'm having a lot of 200 EA and applying a sampling procedure of base 10 and no. of samples 1, the sample size will be 10...which i understand, but for the same lot, if i applied a sample drawing procedure beside this sampling procedure, the sample size will not be 10, which i don't understand....i hope u can help with this and thanks a lot for ur concern

[former_member587434 · Accepted solution]

>

> how the SAP calculates the sample in the case of applying sample management
> for example: if i'm having a lot of 200 EA and applying a sampling procedure of base 10 and no. of samples 1, the sample size will be 10...which i understand, but for the same lot, if i applied a sample drawing procedure beside this sampling procedure, the sample size will not be 10, which i don't understand....i hope u can help with this and thanks a lot for ur concern

In SDP We define no. of Primary Sample (directly taken from the Inspection Lot), we need to define here Pooled Sample ( to be obtained from mixing Primary Sample) and Reserve Sample (from the Pooled Sample to be stored for future reference).

If you are receiving lot with qty 200 EA and you are taking 10 EA as sampling qty based on SP than this 10 EA will be your primary as well as pooled sample. Out of 10 EA if you put 2 EA for future insp than this 2 EA you can define as reserve sample in SDP.

Same Ex with diff data::

If you are receiving lot with 200 EA and from this lot if you are taking two sample each 10 EA than thiese two will primary sample. Primary sample 1 :10 EA, primary sample 2: 10 EA.

Total qty :20 EA will be Pooled sample.

Out of 20 if you are taking 2 EA as future insp than these 2 EA will be your reserve sample.

I hope this helps.

Thanks!!!

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

well nehal this sounds interesting, i'll try it on IDES and be back 2 u, thanks a lot really for ur help

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

hi again

well i got the issue of sample management, but still missing a small point, should we assign inspection points while working with sample management, if yes then why? and how the inspection point affects the sample size calculation (if it affects)

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Insp. Points doesn't influence the Sample Size.

Inspection Points are used when we want to record multiple times against one Physical Sample.

Best Regards,

K. Raghavendra Nayak

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

what if there was a destructive characteristic?

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

For Destructive SAmpling, as per best practices, you have to create another Physical Sample against the same Inspection Lot and not Inspection Point.

I hope you have understood.

Best Regards,

K. Raghavendra Nayak

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

thanks a lot for ur help

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

dear kappettu

i'm sorry but i'm missing something, you said that inspection points don't affect sample size calculation and i totally agree with u, but i need to understand a point: assume that i'm on a production line and performing in process inspection, we have 2 cases now

case A: no inspection points, i got a sample size of 10 pcs for example

the scenario will be as follows

1)order release

2)inspection lot created

3) samples are drawn

4)recording results

case B: inpection points are set to inspect every 6 hours, we will have the same sample size again which is 10 pcs

the scenario in case B if i'm not mistaken will be as follows:

1) order release

2)inspection lot created and sample (10 pcs) calculated

3)drawing my 10 pcs (ALL TOGETHER)

4) recording my results

now, what is the benefit of the inspection points if i'm going to draw all the samples @ the beginning, what i mean is that as long as i'm going on with the production I'M NOT TAKING ANY SAMPLES so it is useless to record the result for the same sample i have already drawn AT THE BEGINNING

i'm sure that i'm mistaken in something but i don know which is it, i wrote some phrases in CAPITAL LETTERS those which i doubt i'm mistaken in. i hope you can help me with it

thanks in advance

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Case A: (Without Insp. Points)

1) Order Release

2) Inspection Lot Created

3) Physical Samples created. Two Physical Samples (Test Sample and Reserve Sample)

4) Sample Size for each of the Physical Size calculated. Say 10 Pcs for each of the Physical Sample.

5) Results Recording possible against each of the Physical Sample.

Case B: (With Insp. Points)

1) Order Release

2) Inspection Lot Created

3) Physical Samples created. Two Physical Samples (Test Sample and Reserve Sample)

4) Sample Size for each of the Physical Size calculated. Say 10 Pcs for each of the Physical Sample.

5) Results Recording possible against each of the Physical Sample. In some cases, it is required that against one Physical Sample we do multiple tests and there would be actual results against each of the tests conducted. For example, if you are into a Pharma Industry, pecular requirement would be Sample Size of the Physical Sample is 10 Gms....but for testing purpose physically around 5 Gms are enough...if the test sample of this 5 Gms got wierd results...they again take that extra 5 Gms of that Physical Sample and redo the testing....and Management want to record these results also....

Hope you understood.

Best Regards,

K. Raghavendra Nayak

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

first of all i want to thank you a lot for your great concern, but i don't think you got my point so let me clarify it again.

let's say we are on production line, and today we have to produce 1000 pcs. we assigned inspection points to check every 100 pcs, which mean we have 10 inspections (record results 10 times for one inspection lot).

what i want to understand now what will happen with the process of taking samples.

case 1) well we take a sample every 100 pcs (and in this case the sample will be the whole sample size of the lot divided by 10 which is the number of my inspections),

or

case 2) we will take one sample @ the beginning (and in this case the sample will be the whole sample size of the lot) and we enter the results every 100 pcs.

for me, the logic says that we take a sample every 100 pcs (case 1), as it makes nonsense if i took my whole sample quantity at the begining and recorded the results 10 times because this is the sample for the 1st 100 pcs, i didn't take samples from the next 900 pcs. but i don't really know what SAP do with this, is it the first case or the second or something else ??

i hope that i clarified my point to you and wish you can help me with it, and thanks a lot again for your great concern and patience.

Regards,

Mahmoud Osama

[Former Member]

Hi

i need to know how SAP calculates the lot's sample size in the presence of sample drawing procedure, and when should i apply sample drawing procedures (sample management) ?

I hope you must have gone through the posts alreay have on SDN.

I will just share my thoughts for the same in simple terms....

SAmple drawing procedure is the way you want to draw & how much you want to draw the sample.

This is used specifically in Process/chemical/pharma industry.

sample are either drawn by sample drwing procedure or fixed sampling...

but the difference in by sample type.

Majorly these are Pooled sample or Primery sample(or many cases reserve samples).

Primery sample are the samples which are as name suggest are initial sample drawn for testing.

Pooles samples are drawn in addition to what primery samples are.

so the sample size is calcualted based on primery (if only primery sample is specified) or based on both Pooled & priemry...

so either fixed or using sampling scheme the sample size will be calculated.

please refer the chart given on SAP help.

I hope this will add some value

Regards

Sujit

[Former Member]

hi sujit

ur point is good and making the issue a bit clearer for me, but let's clarify it more with an example if you don't mind

assume that i'm having a lot of size 200 EA, and i'm applying a SAMPLING PROCEDURE for example "X01" of sample = 1 and base = 10, so the sample size will be 10 EA, which is logical and i understand this, the problem happens if i applied a SAMPLE DRAWING PROCEDURE in the presence the of the previous SAMPLING PROCEDURE assigned to the MIC (characteristic), the sample size of the lot will not be 10 EA, which i don't understand how it is calculated....i hope u can help with this, and thanks a lot for ur help and concern