Is the portal "dead"? What comes after EP 6.0? Rumours...

[markus_doehr2]

In the last weeks I have heard quite a few times from other customers and also from more or less "internals" that there will be no new development on the Portal side.

I´m aware that EP 6.0 is supported until the end of the maintenance of NW 7.0, I´m also aware, that there will be an enhancement package (or more than one) until then but I think that question is still valid.

Minor improvements are made with each SP (or now enhX), so I see progress but I doubt seriously, that the EP 6.0 enhX will be followed by an EP 7.0 (or whatever it is called then).

I am wondering because

- there is no active development towards J2EE 5.0 (or higher) in the EP area (at least I´m not aware of any), Java 1.4.2 is completely EOL´ed at the end of the current month; as of today you won´t be able to use an operating system such as Windows 2008 to run a portal.

- there is no "preview" of any newer technology covering EP functionality as is there for other middleware products (e. g. PI 7.1)

- I "heard", that the applications framework (or better said: the Netweaver base (enhX)) will handle in some version the inter-system data passing themselves, without the need of a portal in the middle that takes the data from system A and pass it to an application running against backend system B.

It´d be very nice if someone could comment on that, is that all misinformation and/or false conclusions?

Markus

[Former Member]

Markus,

I think the SAP Portal is transcending to become more of a horizontal portal instead of what it is known for now, which is just a front end for SAP backend systems making it a vertical portal. That's the main reason the SAP portal is not used by companies who do not have SAP as their ERP or BI etc.

Good thing is the Portal is now heading towards becoming a collaboration portal with Web 2.0 elements like Blogs, Wikis, Forums etc. SAP would be partnering with Jive software to deliver this functionality.

That's probably the biggest move SAP is making in the portal space. As far as your question of whether its dead, I don't think so as it would continue to be the strategic platform for Web delivered solutions. Business Client is promising but definitely won't displace the Portal space. I think the goal of Business Client is to deliver more rich applications as its a client side install giving and gives an opportunity to leverage some client computing power.

Looking forward to that!

Kiran

[markus_doehr2]

Good thing is the Portal is now heading towards becoming a collaboration portal with Web 2.0 elements like Blogs, Wikis, Forums etc. SAP would be partnering with Jive software to deliver this functionality.

You can have that today too - if you want to - without the need of deploying complex J2EE engines. It´s a nice-to-have but it doesn´t give any real business value. We didn´t gain a single u20AC more since we deployed the portal (if we focus on the "usage" of it) and Wikis won´t change that (not in our business - manufacturing). There are things like "public directories" in Exchange or even simpler shared filesystem directories that are much easier to handle and maintain as a Wiki, from a technical as well as a from a usage type of view. I appreciate that but for us it´s not of any use.

That's probably the biggest move SAP is making in the portal space. As far as your question of whether its dead, I don't think so as it would continue to be the strategic platform for Web delivered solutions.

If that is true, where is the roadmap? I heard a lot of people saying that exactly this is not true and this was the intention of creating this thread. You can get roadmaps for ERP enhancement packages, you get them for BI, for PI, for CRM and for SRM - where´s the portal?

Business Client is promising but definitely won't displace the Portal space. I think the goal of Business Client is to deliver more rich applications as its a client side install giving and gives an opportunity to leverage some client computing power.

What I have seen it´s more (as of now) a nice guide procedure frontend. Seriously, if I would take away e. g. the VA01 of our sales people (where most of them work with SAP and VA01 for 10+ years) and tell them to use NWBC instead, they would instantly kill me.

Markus

[Former Member]

Hi Markus,

You have made some really good points when you said that addition of Wikis, Forums and Blogs don't really add $$$ value to the business. But at the same time, in the long run a period of 5 years one can surely derive some knowledge out of all the discussions. The management can tap the vast knowledge of lay man users who may use the collaborative system you have built to share thoughts, ideas -- all a part of evolutions I think.

Speaking of road maps -- there was an EHp1 road map for portal as well. Though it didn't speak much of new features functionalities it did exist :P. For all the EhP's Portal is the building block. For e.g BI now integrated with the Java stack to enable web reporting features without having to maintain a separate portal like we used to do earlier. So I guess going forward we will surely have some hopefully cool Web 2.0 apps.

Also CE7.1 SR5 bring a whole set of new features where you can build rules etc etc all within NWDS and deploy the application "Galaxy" so there is a lot of work happening.

Thanks,

GLM

[markus_doehr2]

So I guess going forward we will surely have some hopefully cool Web 2.0 apps.

Well - not sure if "coolness" adds a value at all but let´s see We are usually more pragmatic, we prefer HTML instead of Flash, simplicity instead of huge complexity; all in all "keep it as simple as possible".

Also CE7.1 SR5 bring a whole set of new features where you can build rules etc etc all within NWDS and deploy the application "Galaxy" so there is a lot of work happening.

That´s another point. We don´t want to get a development environment but a solution for a business case. We don´t want to develop software, we want to USE it.

Markus

[hofmann]

Hi Markus,

We don´t want to get a development environment but a solution for a business case. We don´t want to develop software, we want to USE it.

Well, then you're asking the wrong question. It shouldn't be about the future of the portal, it should be about where the portal can help you to solve a business case. The main reason to have a portal is: Access to aggregated information.

If your business case demands a solution for this: there are the Business Packages like ESS/MSS or collaboration (Collab rooms) or information broadcasting or mobile access. Take a look at the roadmap of this business case and you'll find out where the future of the portal is.

Up to now, SAP is talking about the information worker that needs access to information. As long SAP won't change this, the portal will stay what it is: provide the infrastructure to facilitate access and integration of (distributed) information (via roles, KM, Wikis, etc). Whether you'll be using NWBC or a browser to access this information ... this depends on you (and your business).

br,

Tobias

[Former Member]

GLM and Markus,

I understand your points of view. That's the reason getting a buy in from leadership is difficult for Social media stuff in an Enterprise. It is impractical to quantify the $ ROI from these tools. But, can we get a $ ROI for email and instant messenger? I question. These become productivity tools in the end and if you talk to the world and tell them that Wikipedia, Facebook, LinkedIn and such tools will be wiped out from tomorrow on, I'm sure this will have impact on how people collaborate, connect, exchange knowledge and 'grow' in their domain. That's the whole idea behind considering Web 2.0 as more of a philosophy than equate it to a technology innovation like AJAX or Wiki etc

This is more pertinent in the US, where the boomers account for a major share of the working population and are ready to step into the retirement phase. I understand that its not a cake walk to make people wiki or blog but creating a UI that's engaging is the only way to digitize this tribal knowledge.

The fact that I am able connect with a anonymous person working in a timezone 12 hours apart and get my question answered is truly a leap in Societal evolution and is a big asset when companies are getting more and more global.

I am enjoying this conversation. Please do share your thoughts.

Regards,

Kiran

[markus_doehr2]

> If your business case demands a solution for this: there are the Business Packages like ESS/MSS or collaboration (Collab rooms) or information broadcasting or mobile access. Take a look at the roadmap of this business case and you'll find out where the future of the portal is.

Did that - and didn't find anything specific (speaking of e. g. business packages - apart from ESS/MSS) as I was able to find for the "backend" applications (CRM, SRM - as I said before).

To stay with your example: ESS/MSS is "backported" to WD-ABAP (at least in parts already) and could so be called directly from an intranet instead of using the portal.

I'm trying to find out if we still need to run the portal, if the information, that is provided there, is available on other ways by avoiding the usage of it with the same or likewise functionality.

Markus

[markus_doehr2]

> That's the whole idea behind considering Web 2.0 as more of a philosophy than equate it to a technology innovation like AJAX or Wiki etc

I'm with you - not underestimating the "social value" of such a technology.

But speaking for us: We are a classical manufacturing company, we don't develop software, we work with metal. We made a test drive with some departments using instant messengers instead of email or phone calls - and the outcome was: People are more busy with using the "new ways of communication" instead of running the/their business. Our customers are equally conservative, many of them (small shops) don't even have a PC or laptop and if they have one, they are happy if the know how to get and send email. This is certainly not representative for all customers, I'm speaking for us.

> This is more pertinent in the US, where the boomers account for a major share of the working population and are ready to step into the retirement phase. I understand that its not a cake walk to make people wiki or blog but creating a UI that's engaging is the only way to digitize this tribal knowledge.

Well - we have an internal Wiki in our IT department - and even our people (including me) don't use it. It's a nice-to-have but it doesn't really help us in our daily work. Before I will create an article by pressing "edit" (and investing time which is missing on another place then) I will solve the problem myself (if I know the solution) or pick up the phone and ask the person who knows.

> The fact that I am able connect with a anonymous person working in a timezone 12 hours apart and get my question answered is truly a leap in Societal evolution and is a big asset when companies are getting more and more global.

True - and it's nice - but it's not something crucial (not for us).

Markus

[hofmann]

We're using the portal as an out-of-the box solution and do also custom development. It's like with the ECC: it gets shipped with functionality, but to really use it, you need to develop your own programs.

If you don't want to develop and don't need the portal for a business case, why are you using it? This has nothing to do with "is the portal dead" or "what's the roadmap". If you don't need the infrastructure (roles, collaboration, etc) of the portal or any of the provided solutions, why use it?

To gain access to information from ECC (and/or iViews), you can also use the NWBC. If this provides all the information you need, well, in this case, well, the portal is dead for you.

br,

Tobias

[markus_doehr2]

> If you don't want to develop and don't need the portal for a business case, why are you using it? This has nothing to do with "is the portal dead" or "what's the roadmap". If you don't need the infrastructure (roles, collaboration, etc) of the portal or any of the provided solutions, why use it?

We "needed" it for e. g. ESS/MSS - which was not available as WD-ABAP at the time we started with it. We also "need" it for BI-Java, which is, we were told (by SAP consultants), the future. However, we found out, that all that is also available without it - and isn't then the question valid, where the train is driving?

Markus

[hofmann]

Looks like you never really needed the portal. Judging from you core business, you're more or less the target group for ECC (9SAPGui & NWBC) and not for the portal. You should re-talk with some SAP consultants and not so-called consultants that are sales people.

If you don't need Web 2.0 - and for this, there exist better portal software than the EP - or any other EP provided solution, cut it. The train is driving into a direction where you don't want and need to be. If you can achieve everything without the portal, why the overhead?

The only thing where I'm not sure is the BI-Java - now Business Objects. I think you'll need a portal, allthough not as an entry point (NWBC).

br,

Tobias

[Former Member]

Hi,

There is EP7.0 which comes with NW04S and people are using it. There has been lots of enhancements in EP7.0 compared to EP6.0. I haven't heard of any news about portal's end anytime and I don't think it will happen. May be someone who is working closely with such product developments and enhancements can give more clear view. I feel the news may be false.

Regards,

Harini S

[Former Member]

We do have NW Portal 7.0 isn't it. Also in CE 7.1 JDK 5 is supported and it does come with a WAS Engine and a Portal.

Sorry if I haven't understood you question.

But also it would be good to know whats coming after 7.0.....would CE 7.1 be the portal roll out for customers or would there be something like an 8.0 portal or would be just be enhancement packs which give new features??

Thanks,

GLM

Edited by: GLM on Oct 8, 2008 9:44 AM

[markus_doehr2]

We do have NW Portal 7.0 isn't it. Also in CE 7.1 JDK 5 is supported and it does come with a WAS Engine and a Portal.

Yes - you´re right - sorry for "numbering confusion". The question is: What´s coming after that?

Markus

[hofmann]

Hi Markus,

the next SAPGui - SAP NetWeaver Business Client (NWBC) - is able to integrate iViews directly. So my guess is that SAP is continuing to move onwards to NetWeaver (as a platform) and continous to opening up the access to the applications (WSRP, WebServices, Portal). I believe the portal won't die, it won't just be the primary source for accessing WebDynpro/portal applications. For that, the NWBC will be used and pushed. The portal will continue be responsible for creating roles (information aggregation), but the way this will be consumed by employees will change.

For remote access, the primary way of accessing data/information will be the portal.

br,

Tobias

[markus_doehr2]

For remote access, the primary way of accessing data/information will be the portal.

you mean an external facing portal?

Our experience is: the users don´t accept it.

The portal and the applications therein a are too sedate, it´s click - wait a second - click the next time wait a second - the whole experience of using the portal is not a real web experience but more like a big big valiumized framework that´s mainly using too many CPU cycles to be busy with itself. We did a lot of efforts in tuning, caching, memory analysis but it´s just the way it is - slow.

Compared to other huge web environments (Amazon, Google) it´s uncomparable sedated.

Our users tend to use the (still available) alternative ways of accessing the data, they mainly use the SAPGUI, even if they need many more steps to get their output - but they are still faster than clicking through the menu structure and waiting for the screen to be loaded completely where the portal itself is idling with 95 %...

Markus