XI with ABAP stack only ?

[Former Member]

Looking at some very annoying problems with the XI Java Stack and applications (stability, memory consumption), following question comes to mind:

is it technically possible to run an XI system without the Java stack ? How much functionality do we have in there, can we do customers projects with that ?

In ABAP stack, we have the following functions:

- Business Process Engine

- Integration Engine

- HTTP Adapter

- IDoc Adapter

- ABAP-Mapping (XSL or handmade)

also, we have of course the functionality of using File/FTP,Mail in ABAP. This means the most important adapter types are available in ABAP (without needing the Java adapter engine).

Of course the Integration Builder is not available then. But do we really need it ?? Same applies for the SLD.

Are the pipeline objects (receiver determination, interface determination and so on) stored in the ABAP stack ? I assume that is the case. Does ABAP stack contain the XI message type objects ? Or is that stored in Java ?

Anyone tried that path ? Is it already failing in the installation because some core XI ABAP components require Java parts ? Or would it work ?

Of course the answer depends on "what do we define to be XI". For me it is the core integration engine with the pipeline architecture plus mapping and proxy extension points. Everything else (e.g. tools) needed can be built around it.

Customer benefits would be: focus on ABAP only (Java knowhow not needed), easier administration and more stability.

CSY

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

I think all these links are useless, this guy already knows what he's talking about.

You're right Chris, SAP could provide many of the PI's functions by using ABAP only.

But I guess this is because of efforts to comply with standards, challanging other ESB's with similar user friendly GUIs and marketing strategies. i.e. PI uses JCA for adapters, so any JCA compliant adapter can also be modified to work on PI, and I think this is the major issue.

I'm also curious about your opinion.

Regards,

Gökhan

[Former Member]

>And if no IR and ID, then no design and configuration.

Surely, the developer will be quite limited compared to normal IR/ID development.

But there is a SOAP-API for the ID objects, for example. I assume that this API calls ABAP methods in the backend.

I will find out and give feedback. Surely some additional ABAP add-on tools will have to be created to make normal customer projects possible. My point is, this add-on effort is not that much. Because we can concentrate on what is really needed.

CSY

[Former Member]

Hi CSY,

One of the most interesting threads I have come across in XI forums recently!!!

I most certainly believe XI is not XI with out Java.

We have most of the components in XI running on Java stack. Even the administration tools are in Java stack. Yes, I agree there are quite a few transactions you can use to customize/configure IE but there is no transaction to replace Visual Admin (NWA from PI7.1) functionality. I would say Java and ABAP stacks are very tightly coupled to each other and it would take ages to understand how tightly it is coupled. I have not even considered the time for decoupling ABAP and Java stacks.

For example XI is a client of SLD which runs on Java stack, how do you think you can replace the functionality of SLD via ABAP stack? I can think of "n" number of cases as above.

One of the quotes from SAP PI Product Manager I heard during a training on PI 7.1 goes "We have moved the functionality of IE(pipeline steps) to AE ofcourse this has to be improvised and will be done in the future versions. The long term plan is to make XI a complete Java based tool. All the developers tools will be accessed via NWDS in future"

I may not have quoted him word by word, but the essence is the same. SAP is planning to move towards an all together Java solution and you seem to take exactly the opposite direction.

I dont think you can come with a Xi tool that is completely based on ABAP stack but I sincerely wish you all the best for your efforts. Do update me on the results. I will be much hdelighted if I can help you in any way.

Regards

Jaishankar

[Former Member]

Hello Jaishankar,

> there is no transaction to replace Visual Admin (NWA from >PI7.1) functionality.

question: suppose we are not using the J2EE stack of XI, do we need the NWA ? Does NWA also contain important functions which control/configure the ABAP stack ?

>I would say Java and ABAP stacks are very tightly coupled >to each other and it would take ages to understand how >tightly it is coupled.

this would be quite bad design then. But you may be right. Current cross-calls from ABAP to Java I know:

- call Java-Mapping from ABAP pipeline. If we do not need Java mapping, this call is not needed. In ABAP, we have ABAP and XSLT mapping options

- other ? What else ? I am talking about runtime execution (pipeline), not designer tools

>For example XI is a client of SLD which runs on Java stack, >how do you think you can replace the functionality of SLD via

yes. But what does XI need from SLD ? Business systems, target transports, ok. It's a handful of objects types which can easily be maintained in the ABAP stack also. For customers which are using the SAP portal or other Java components (apart from XI), of course, that makes no sense. But for smaller customers which do not use portal: for what do they really need that SLD ? I have seen one customer recently who didnt know about the transport targets and so maintained the IR objects on the productive system manually. More an education issue, but it shows a bit that the SLD for some customers is overkill.

>improvised and will be done in the future versions. The long >term plan is to make XI a complete Java based tool. All the >developers tools will be accessed via NWDS in future"

yes, I heard that also, and it is very interesting in fact. We will see what happens

thanks for your input,

CSY

[Former Member]

>>suppose we are not using the J2EE stack of XI, do we need the NWA ?

You got me I dint think about that. You are right. All the configurations that we do in NWA are for Java services. May be it is coz I cant think about XI sans SOAP,JDBC, RFC, JMS adapters. But you already said you dont want those functionalities too!!! I am not an ABAPer. Is it possible in ABAP programs to do FTP operations?

>>But what does XI need from SLD ? Business systems, target transports, ok. It's a handful of objects types which can easily be maintained in the ABAP stack also

Ok. Let us take a simple ABAP proxy call. Although the SAP system talks with IE directly and send the data, the first step it does is gets the data from SLD. Couple of RFC to establish the connection with SLD and another couple of RFCs to retrieve the data(BS names) from it. You plan to move all that to ABAP stack of XI?

I guess you are planning to build your own middle ware All the best.

Regards

Jaishankar

[Former Member]

>May be it is coz I cant think about XI sans SOAP,JDBC, >RFC, JMS adapters. But you already said you dont want >those functionalities too!!!

without doubt, JMS and JDBC are strengths of the J2EE architecture. As well as JCA generally. I consider the available adapter standards as the most important advantage from J2EE over ABAP in XI.

>I am not an ABAPer. Is it possible in ABAP programs to do >FTP operations?

yes. File, FTP, HTTP, SMTP, SOAP, RFC/Idoc are available, and much more.

> I guess you are planning to build your own middle ware

no, hope not just to add some good add-on tools to XI to make life in projects easier.

CSY

[stefan_grube]

> is it technically possible to run an XI system without the Java stack ? How much functionality do we have in there, can we do customers projects with that ?

Hi Chistian,

this is a definitive "no".

Best regards

Stefan

[Former Member]

Simple..if there is no java stack then no IR, ID, SLD and AE.

And if no IR and ID, then no design and configuration.

if no design and configuration then what u will run:)

thanks

farooq

[former_member183906]

Hii Christian Sy !!

After reading 2 things comes in my mind,Seems U r in too much in love with either ABAP or JAVA ,Anyways :

XI is installed on WAS which has both ABAP engine and Java Engine.

Java Stack

The J2EE stack contains the Adapter Engine, our mapping programs will get executed in Java stack only. Integration builder, Adapter engine and RWB will be installed on Java engine.

ABAP Stack

Integration engine, BPM engine will be installed on ABAP stack.

The ABAP stack consists of the Integration Server which in turn contains your Integration Engine and Business Process Engine.

Most of XI pipelines happens in the ABAP stack.

All messsages picked by the Adapter Framework running on the J2EE engine are passed to the Integration Engine, which does the routing. The mapping program again gets executed on the Java stack and the rest of the pipeline servies are executed again on the ABAP stack and so on.

chk out the links::

https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/go/portal/prtroot/docs/media/uuid/4aa47d27-0a01-0010-5db4-bb62dfc8c0...

http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/14/80243b4a66ae0ce10000000a11402f/frameset.htm

http://help.sap.com/saphelp_nw04/helpdata/en/14/80243b4a66ae0ce10000000a11402f/frameset.htm

[Former Member]

Hi,

I will tell you why exactly the java stack is requrired. If it the application in java then only sight to sight connections is possible java is more comfortable language for web application.

all the IR and ID components are build on java swings it is os independent.

Thanks,

RamuV

[Former Member]

java stack contains following components without which may noy be possible for a scenario to work

Java stack

o System Landscape Directory (SLD)

o Integration Repository

o Integration Directory

o Adapter Engine

o Runtime Workbench