MadDB Community License - sapdbc.jar?

[Former Member]

Hello,

- I only find the global MaxDB Community License on the Web Pages. Is this now also covering the sapdbc.jar (i.e. the JDBC driver)? This one has been GPL before (which was somewhat painfull). Can we now asume the Driver can be used under the Community License?

- The Community License grants only "for your own internal data processing operations". Does this also cover the DP needs of a service provider?

Bernd

[lbreddemann · Accepted solution]

Hi Bernd,

to me the Community license is pretty clear here:

>SAP grants to you a non-exclusive, royalty-fee, nontransferable limited license to use the Software Product without license fees solely for

> purposes of testing and evaluating the Software Product and designing, developing, and testing your Application,

> (ii) reproducing and using internally the Software Product complete and unmodified for the sole purpose of running your own or third party Applications other than SAP Applications for your own internal data processing operations,

> (iii) providing third party demonstrations and training.

Therefore: no, you aren't allowed to deliver 'database services' but you may use MaxDB e.g. for your service delivery database, ERP or CRM system - for the internal data processing stuff.

Concerning the jdbc Driver - the whole MaxDB package as it is available for download is subject of the Community license. That includes the JDBC driver.

I'm not sure why you like the Community License better than the GPL - have you checked paragraph 3 - Additional Limitations?

Best regards,

Lars

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

>

> to me the Community license is pretty clear here:
...
> Therefore: no, you aren't allowed to deliver 'database services' but you may use MaxDB e.g. for your service delivery database, ERP or CRM system - for the internal data processing stuff.
....
> I'm not sure why you like the Community License better than the GPL - have you checked paragraph 3 - Additional Limitations?

Yes, but the question is, if I as a IT subsidiary can run the CRM system (based on MaxDB Community) for my other companies in the group. The "internal" is not well defined in reagrds to business entities and external services.

Well, I think the license will kill MaxDB as a general purpose free database, but I dont see specific points in pragraph 3 which are a problem for me.

Gruss

Bernd

[TTK · Accepted solution]

Hello Bernd

IANAL and maybe I'm missing the point, but since everybody can download and use the community edition of MaxDB for the internal data processing stuff, I don't understand why you think, that MaxDB is not a general purpose free database.

Regards Thomas

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

>

> IANAL and maybe I'm missing the point, but since everybody can download and use the community edition of MaxDB for the internal data processing stuff, I don't understand why you think, that MaxDB is not a general purpose free database.

Well, the problem ist the internal. Lots of my customers are Service Providers like your average larger IT department. They are providing services (with our application) for internal as well as external customers.

Luckily(?) for me, I can't use MaxDB for the larger Installations (performance has improved but still our application runs better on Oracle or MSSQL) anyway, so it is not a big deal, cause I reserve the community edition or a commercial license for the smaller customers with inhouse services.

However I am looking for alternatives cause I have to explain that to my customers and I just don't want to be in that role, cause I am not a Lawyer eighter I just don't have justification to invest more into MaxDB porting/optimizing when the license is that complicated.

However: it is good to hear that the opinion here is, that the GPL restriction for the Drivers is lifted. Thats at least one helpful step in making the software less challenging to analyse and use.

Gruss

Bernd

[lbreddemann · Accepted solution]

Hi Bernd,

the point here is (of course all this is my personal opinion): SAP allows people to use their MaxDB just as it is - just like every other DBMS vendor does.

A DBMS is a part of IT infrastructure and the vendors like people to get familiar with it.

But using the software in a way where you can earn money or provide services a.k.a. 'doing serious business' with it is wanted only when you pay for the software in one way or the other (license, maintenance, support... pick your favourite).

For SAP MaxDB is not a product on its own but 'just' one part of the technological platform NetWeaver, thus there are no Non-SAP license/support offerings (at least not at the moment).

So, besides the fact that no contract/license agreement can ever be 'well defined' in a mathematical sense, I find the intended regulations of the license pretty obvious.

Personally I wouldn't use MaxDB or any other infrastructure component for products/services I sell, if there is no support agreement available that fits my needs.

What do you want to do, when you hit a bug and you don't get a bug fix soon? With a support contract - well still a problem, but you get a fix or workaround rather quick. Without such an agreement - you'll wait till the next "community version" is available.

For personal development, testing, non-critical stuff where I still want a full DBMS - MaxDB would be the DB of choice to me in most cases.

Anyhow - if it would be me who's interested in using a DBMS that is not as bloated and expensive as Oracle but that's still able to handle huge workloads as SAP Systems produce, then I would try to contact the SAP sales department and see whether there are any options to get a support license.

(I believe that SAP is getting more open to support software even when there is no NetWeaver infrastructure available - just think of the many Business Objects users that are supported w/o having any other SAP software...)

Perhaps your chances for being successful with that even grow once you find others that would like to do the same (you may look at http://www.open-maxdb-group.org/ for that).

Just my two pence...

best regards,

Lars

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

>

> Hi Bernd,
> 
> the point here is (of course all this is my personal opinion): SAP allows people to use their MaxDB just as it is - just like every other DBMS vendor does.

Which is not correct, the limitations are more severe than the Express Editions of DB2 or Free Database Systems like PostgreSQL.

> For SAP MaxDB is not a product on its own but 'just' one part of the technological platform NetWeaver, thus there are no Non-SAP license/support offerings (at least not at the moment).

That has recently changed, and that might be the reason why we might have to drop support for it.

> So, besides the fact that no contract/license agreement can ever be 'well defined' in a mathematical sense, I find the intended regulations of the license pretty obvious.

Well, its a rater aribitary and pretty uncommon restriction in the FOSS world. I guess thats why I asked for confirmation.

But from all the answers and rethinking the situation I guess I dont need to keep MaxDB support in our product, as the customers wont accept those restrictions in most cases. Who would have thought that the MySQL sales was easier to deal with...

Greetings

Bernd

[lbreddemann · Accepted solution]

>

> 
> Which is not correct, the limitations are more severe than the Express Editions of DB2 or Free Database Systems like PostgreSQL.
hmm... from the [DB2-C|http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/db2/express/about.html?S_TACT=none&S_CMP=none] website:
Features not included in the free edition of DB2 Express-C:
Replication 
High Availability / Disaster Recovery 
...
I would consider missing DR as a very severe restriction. Anyhow, concerning the ways DB2-C is allowed to be used, you're right. IBM allows to do more with the DB.
But think about it - why do you think that they do this? To be kind? Surely not. They also want to get more market share, more installations and more people that are used to DB2. They want to expand their sales opportunities.
Concerning PostgreSQL - you're right, it's a OpenSource DB... so no vendor.
It's not a commercial product, although it's a good DBMS. I was talking about DBMS vendors...
Still my original point holds true: If you need things link professional support or bug fixes, you've to pay for it.
> 

> > For SAP MaxDB is not a product on its own but 'just' one part of the technological platform NetWeaver, thus there are no Non-SAP license/support offerings (at least not at the moment).

>

> That has recently changed, and that might be the reason why we might have to drop support for it.

Yep - that changed. Right. So what?

You can still use the old versions that had been released as OpenSource without the limitations. You're just not getting the more recent development efforts for free without restrictions anymore.

I don't see that anybody has to repeat making presents only because he did it once.

> Well, its a rater aribitary and pretty uncommon restriction in the FOSS world. I guess thats why I asked for confirmation.

Well, just as you said - things changed, MaxDB with the current versions is not a part of the FOSS world anymore. You may use it (under the given restrictions) or leave it.

> But from all the answers and rethinking the situation I guess I dont need to keep MaxDB support in our product, as the customers wont accept those restrictions in most cases. Who would have thought that the MySQL sales was easier to deal with...

Well, good luck then, honestly!

Best regards,

Lars